Phil and Clint discuss Michigan winning the Big Ten Championship (AGAIN), possibly meeting Ohio State for the National Championship (and definitely beating them), Blake Corum getting “The Heisman” from Heisman voters, the departures of QB Cade McNamara and TE Erick All. With audio from QB JJ McCarthy, former QB Cade McNamara, and Jim Harbaugh.
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Phil Callihan 0:00
This is Phil Callihan, along with Clint Derringer, and we’re going to wrap up the big 10 championship game that saw Michigan triumph by a score of 43 to 22. And talk about the season in general up to this point. Well, Clint, what do you think about the big 10 championship game,
Clint Derringer 0:32
I thought it was really interesting going into the game, I thought maybe Michigan would kind of just tweak the game plan that they had gone into the Ohio State game, because in a strange way, Purdue’s offense operated in a similar way to Ohio State’s offense in terms of being passed first. With you know, and just trying to eliminate as many explosive plays for touchdowns as you can, and making them execute up and down the field and then finish for touchdowns in the red zone. So a similar game plan in that manner. And that’s what we saw on Michigan conceded a lot of yards and allowed Purdue to run a lot of plays. I tracked 83 plays for 469 yards for Purdue. But they could only turn that into 22 points, and only nine points in the second half. So another really, really great defensive game plan. And another very similar shape to this game on the offensive side, in terms of a little bit of a slow start, you know, only up 14 to 13 at halftime, and then really found some creases in the running game. And Donovan Edwards had another couple big runs, and was named the game’s MVP, so very, very similar tone. And I think a strategy, even if the specifics of the game plan were different, of course, but I think a very similar strategy from what they did in the 12 game into the 13th game. And it was obviously good enough to beat Ohio State and then good enough to beat Purdue and bring home big 10 Championship
Phil Callihan 2:18
Definitely hats off to Purdue. They were they held up the honor of the West Division and the big 10, certainly better than Iowa did last year. And I was struck by how similar this game was to many of Michigan’s other games this season, as you said, really tight at halftime 14 to 13. And then Michigan outpaced them by scoring 29 points to their nine in the second half for a final 43 to 22. And, you know, on one hand, you look and you say, well, Michigan gave up 22 points. But on the other hand, it really felt like a, like a typical Michigan prototype Football game this season, you know, kind of probing them and trying different things in the first half, and then just putting the pedal to the metal and blowing them out in the second half. And, you know, it’s interesting, because I was wondering heading into this game, when you look at the records of the teams, right, Purdue came in, you know, with four losses. And of course, Michigan was undefeated, I thought there was a chance Michigan might just blow them out in the first half and get it over with. And it’s interesting, because I think from an entertainment standpoint, it definitely kept people tuned in. And on one hand, if you’re, you know, from a national perspective, if, if you’re wondering, oh, great as Michigan for real, you know, you could kind of maybe question it in the first half. But then you saw what they did in the second half. And you’re like, Yeah, this is how Michigan does it.
Clint Derringer 3:46
Yeah. To your point about the the slow start, I’m just gonna look at the success rate, right, our efficiency metric. That’s really how how did you stay on rhythm in terms of moving the chains? So did you get 50% of the yards you need on first down, right? Usually, it’s, you know, first intense, you need five yards or more to be successful. It’s two thirds of the yards that you need on second down, right. So you know, second and 10, you’ve got to get seven yards to be successful. six yards would not be successful on second 10. And then third down, you have to convert 100% of what you need. And fourth down you have to convert so those are successful plays in terms of success rate. And the game ended up very close with Michigan at 46% success rate on 56 plays and Purdue 43% success rate on 83 plays. And then for comparison, Ohio State was also a 46% success rate the previous week. And Michigan success rate in that Ohio State game was just 39%. With explosiveness being the difference in the Ohio State game. So Michigan and Purdue were very similar in success rate, and Purdue got to run a lot more plays. Again they marched pretty easily between the 20s and then could not find a way to punch it into the endzone once they got into into scoring opportunities so that that success rate metric. Even though it ended up close in the first quarter, Purdue was 55%. And Michigan was 30%. Right? It was a huge gap. Purdue had a great game plan for how they wanted to attack Michigan’s defense. And they were finding space with Charlie Jones, the wide receiver transfer from Iowa and ended up with over the huge game in terms of receptions and yardage. But the second, third and fourth quarters, Michigan had an efficiency edge. Right, Purdue was 47, then 33, then 36% success rate. So the they started to get a little bit more physical with Charlie Jones at the line of scrimmage played a little bit more man coverage, right and then created a little bit more pressure with their with their Forman front. And offensively. The, you know, the offensive line, the offensive staff, the run game coordinators started to make a couple adjustments to what they were seeing and eventually broke some long run. So I thought, again, the it was really echoes of the same game plan just dusted off and adjusted for what they were going to see personnel wise from Purdue, from the week before. And that makes total sense to me, because we know that Michigan staff put, you know, an entire offseason and the full season, regular season into what they created for that Ohio State game plan. So the fact that they ended up against a Purdue team from the West, that kind of fit the same bill offensively and defensively as Ohio State then it actually turned into a simpler week of planning for Michigan, I think, from what I could tell, it’s what I thought they might do. And I would agree or I would, I think that it was confirmed with what we saw.
Phil Callihan 6:58
So one of the interesting things for me when I was looking at the postgame stats is that actually Purdue out gained Michigan 456 yards, the 386. And, you know, it’s really notable when you look at the passing yards, you know, 366 yards to 161. So, looking at the game, you know, with perspective of being over, you know, you look at the scoreboard, but if if I had seen those stats, if I had known those were going to be the stats prior to the game, I would suspect that it would be a much closer match. So, you know, going back and rewatching the game. Again, as you said Purdue had some success at times, but Michigan was really able to shut them down when it counted. And, you know, yards don’t always equal points. And I think that’s the thing that I took from watching. The Purdue offense is yeah, they had some success, but if you can’t convert it to touchdowns, you know, it’s, you know, you’re gonna get out outpaced and I think that’s what happened. The other interesting thing is, you know, when you look at, you know, the Michigan side, you have Donovan Edwards, who ended up with 185 yards on 25 carries. JJ McCarthy 11 for 17, one interception, 161 yards, three touchdowns, and you know, Ronnie Bell, five receptions for 67 yards. So it’s another game where the offense did enough, scored, you know, a fair amount of points, but really the defense got the job done and, and came up big when it was important. So, again, just a really interesting Workman, like game for Michigan. You know, we’ve talked about this before, you know, I’ve been a lot around a lot of different teams. And one of the interesting things about covering a game in the big 10 Championship at Lucas Oil Field, is that you have a lot more access to the sidelines prior to the game. And then behind the scenes, like, around the locker rooms before and after. And Purdue. I mean, again, they were definitely game on the field. But again, they they kind of reminded me of, of a team that was definitely overmatched. And you know, they got the heck out of dodge when it was over. There wasn’t a lot of frustration. I think that you know, they, they knew they were overwhelmed. So another interesting thing that as I was running around, right before the team took the field, for the half, I was walking by the Michigan locker room, and, you know, door opened and you heard a, you know, go blue beat Ohio, which really struck me at first I was like, beat Ohio. And then, you know, it kind of got put in perspective after the game. When, you know, JJ McCarthy was asked, you know, how do you feel about possibly playing Ohio State again, please? Please
J.J. McCarthy 10:00
Bring it on. I mean, that would be truly a blessing if we get a shot to play those boys. Again,
Phil Callihan 10:07
We talked a little bit about this when Jim Harbaugh faced Ryan day, you know, for for the game that I think this is a little bit of gamesmanship of, we’re not worried about Ohio, we want to Ohio. And I thought that was an interesting way to do it. That, you know, they’re ready for any challenge, however it comes. So again, I just thought that, you know, at that time, it really struck me and I had to, I had to catch myself that I hear what I thought I heard, and I did. So it’s interesting the way they’re gearing up. And you know, every every game, we’ve heard this this season, that they’re focused on the game at hand, but they have a larger goal, right. And how I took that beat Ohio cheer is, you know, their goal is to go all the way to the end of the college Football playoffs. And if Ohio State is waiting for them all the better.
Clint Derringer 11:03
Yeah, I think that it reiterates what we said after the game last week was this is an inflection point in the rivalry where the pressure and the wonder and the doubt and the questioning of the program, the questioning of the head coach has all shifted it to Columbus. You know, they’re, they’re in a very strange spot where they managed to get a college Football playoff berth is top four program in the country this year. And it doesn’t take much searching to find people who are still calling for Ryan day to be on the hot seat or to be outright fired already, because he’s lost to Michigan twice in a row and lost the first game in Columbus to Michigan in 22 years. So they there are some people that have seen enough in terms of the direction of the program, since Ryan day took over for Urban Meyer. And they feel like the the 2019 and 2020 seasons were kind of you know, the the analogy is wily coyote running off the cliff, right, and he kind of stays up suspended in the air for a few steps at once he’s off the cliff. And he realizes that there’s there’s no ground beneath him and he falls so that questioning and doubt is really it’s familiar, right? It’s what Michigan felt for, you know, at different points in the last 1520 years of the entire program. And every head coach back to Lloyd Carr. At the end of his career. Certainly rich rod and Brady Hoke felt it. And in Jim Harbaugh felt it in the first five years of his tenure. So that pressure, and those questions are significant. So first of all, there’s no reason for the players on this year’s Michigan team to to wonder or to have doubt about whether you know whether they want to play Ohio State again, I think that makes perfect sense that they would be confident. But also, like you mentioned that the gamesmanship aspect of it, I think is also legitimate. The pressures on them, you know, keep it on. But yeah, make make it again, where they’ve got to wonder whether they beat Michigan, or are they going to be the first Ohio State program to lose the Michigan three times inside of two years? Right, another historic, problematic talking point for that program. All of that ends up mounting on top of their program, and then coach, certainly, and eventually that trickles down to the players. And we’ve seen what happens when the players in your program are too nervous or playing tight or too worried about what’s going to happen. As a result, the outcome, as opposed to playing and playing free and having fun and enjoying the enjoying the moment. It’s a very fine line between kind of embracing that moment and enjoying it as it’s happening, and being tight and nervous about it. And we’ve seen that difference, the last two years in the game against Ohio State.
Phil Callihan 14:19
And not just Michigan versus Ohio State. We talked about this last season, when we did our postseason wrap up. It really seemed like there was not only an inflection versus Ohio State that was starting. But there was an inflection in the Michigan program where they weren’t satisfied with just making the college Football playoffs. And it seemed you know, the players were saying listen, the culture has changed. There’s a new vibe here. And you know, that’s one of the reasons we did the postseason wrap up last year is we wanted to see if they continue to build this season. And they have they’re continuing to was sent. So, you know, you talked about how tough it is for Ryan day to lose two in a row to Michigan. What happens if you lose two times in the same season to Michigan? And especially if you know, presumably the second one would be in the national championship game. So it’s really has some interesting undertones and some interesting themes coming in. I mean, I think back you know, you talked about Ryan day being the wily coyote on the Ohio State side. You look back to the one year that Brady Hoke won it was the Luke fickle year, right? I call it the the Ohio State Asterix Asterix year, right 40 to 34. But hey, you had your your pinch hitter coach, right. And, you know, you didn’t do enough to keep the job and he was gone. And you wonder if Ryan day is in a similar position now where you’ve lost two in a row. And again, you know, from an Ohio State side, you wonder, would you rather lose the first game in the college Football playoffs instead of eventually losing the Michigan. And again, it’s just interesting. I really think that those are the kinds of doubts and questions that’s running through Ohio State’s mind. And again, you made a great point, Clint, we’ve been on the other side of it, the end of Lloyd Carr, rich Rodriguez, Brady Hoke era, even the beginning of Jim Harbaugh, you start wondering, gosh, are we ever going to win again, right has things shifted. And it is it is interesting to see the team’s you know, the demeanor on the Ohio State sideline. When when you know, I was down in Columbus, the attitude of the fans. Again, it’s really soured on. The other thing that I thought was interesting was, you know, I think back to the 2006 season, where both teams were loving and no heading into the game. And Ohio State 142 to 39. And prior to that game, there was some conjecture on well, should they both, you know, continue on and meet again, right. And after the game, Ohio State fans were all know, Michigan had their chance they had their chance, right? They didn’t get it done. It was interesting to me to see Ohio State fans twisting themselves in a pretzel to explain how they should back in, you know, this season, especially when they lost so convincingly at home to Michigan, right, with Michigan down two of their best players, you know, and, you know, while we’re while we’re on the subject, right? So it was interesting to kind of see the Ohio State apologists, making all the excuses on why they should be there. And well, you know, watch what you wish for, you know, we’re gonna get to see it play out, especially since I know it’s a different season. But, you know, Georgia is still Georgia. And, you know, I’m still smarting from what they did to Michigan last year in the college Football playoffs. So Ohio State has a very tall order ahead of them.
Clint Derringer 18:05
Yeah, absolutely. They’ve got plenty on their plate. As the four seat taking on Georgia, Georgia is, is, you know, maybe maybe one step one notch below where they were last year, which was a really historically great defense and an explosive offense. And this year, the offense is is pretty similar to what they were last year, but they’re not quite as as dominant on both sides of the ball. So if they came back a step. And this Ohio State team is, I would say not quite as good as what they were last year. But I would say the buckeyes have at least a puncher’s chance because they are still very talented on the offensive side of the ball. We’ll see how we’ll see how healthy they can get between now and then especially in the in the Running Back room. And, you know, they if they can put up points, I mean, LSU was able to put 30 points up in that SEC title game against against Georgia. So there’s a path there for Ohio State to kind of turn it into a little bit of a track meet at least early and and maybe hold on. So I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be shocked if it happened. But I agree with you that it’s a tall order. And we’ll see and we’ll see how I think mentally they respond. You know, we hear from their fan base, and in the Ohio State media, certainly. They feel as if they’ve been given second life, but we’ll see how the program and the coaches and the players seem to respond to being given this the second life, right, and especially if if there’s adversity early on. I just I still haven’t seen these last couple of seasons. I haven’t seen the buckeyes really have to dig deep mentally. And really face adversity or early in a game and and kind of gut or grind out a win. I just I haven’t seen them able to do that. Usually it’s the jump on top by a big number early and they can hold on. But when they’re really up against it, they tend to play tight. And they’re not used to having to really fight their way out of a tough situation. So we’ll see how it goes.
Phil Callihan 20:36
Well, again, it’s just one game. But seeing the way the Ohio State team was just thumped down there. And Clint, it’s one thing to lose. Okay. And I think back to the 2016 game, right. Both teams stood toe to toe, Ohio State came out on top with a little bit of help from the refs. But that was not a game that you would say Michigan was thumped. And, and they left the field with their hate with their head hanging. Right? It was, you know, again, one of those times, well, we we ran out of time before we could win, right? You know, whatever happened in overtime, and you get what I’m saying? You know, there are times where a team has definitely beat. And Ohio State was beaten. Okay, they were they were down. And even if you listen to the postgame press conferences. CJ Stroud was apologetic, I mean, just just beaten, just, you know, the spirit thumped out of them. So, I wonder if Ohio State wants this matchup. Now, again, they’re all competitors. They’re all great athletes, and I’m sure that they will be pumped up and, you know, the competitors in them should want another opportunity. But, you know, when you get beat like that at home, you know, on one of the largest TV audiences, and in quite a long time, you know, they have a lot to come back from, I think that, you know, you look at certain losses, and you say that’s gonna leave a bruise. And that one left a bruise. So you wonder how quickly they can come back. And you know, the same thing when you’re talking about Georgia, they can’t look past Georgia. They can’t look past Georgia to hope to play Michigan again. Or they’ll get embarrassed again. Right. So it’s interesting. You know, obviously, if Ohio State was to go on a run and win the national championship, I’m sure all would be forgiven with Ryan day. But if you know they have this loss for Michigan in the game, and they go out and get thumped by Georgia, or if they somehow squeak by Georgia get thumped by Michigan, you know, where does that leave the program? Right. So, whereas most programs would be very happy to make the college Football playoffs? You know, this is a little different situation.
Clint Derringer 23:01
Yeah, the the best comparison, at least for how I felt and how I would imagine that it feels to be a Buckeye right now is really that 2018 season where Michigan didn’t play well, in the first game of the season in South Bend last to Notre Dame. Right. That’s the team in Notre Dame that ended up going to the to the playoff. And then they win 10 games in a row really dominating everybody on the schedule and riding high into Columbus. And then just got shellacked. Right felt like a total sucker punch that that I didn’t see coming. Certainly like it was I expected a close game and everything. You know, sometimes strange things happen when you’re in Columbus, so So I didn’t, I was prepared to to see a loss, but to get totally railroaded the way that they did in 2018 was was a shock. And I remember, in the days after that game, the questions were about the program. They weren’t about the game. They weren’t about X’s and O’s. They weren’t about the players that are on the field. Right. It was about Don Brown and his defense. It was about Harbaugh and the program. It was about recruiting. It was a you know, they they were existential questions, right there was a paradigm shift in the program to where are we built the way that we need to be to win these games, you know, with with it, can we our offense wasn’t prepared to win a shootout. It was was the consensus, right that if we fall down by a score too early on this this run heavy attack couldn’t couldn’t get it done. And what the answer to that ended up being, you know, they didn’t really transform on offense since 2018. There’s still a run heavy, right? You know, run the ball and play action pass kind of centered on offense but what they’ve done is shift on defense to contain and giving up yardage against Ohio State but tightening up and and trying to hold them to field goals once the once the field shrinks in the red zone so and that now it’s not it doesn’t turn into a track meet and the ground and pound Tech of the offense King can kind of take hold so really you can see this existential battle or the kind of the the large scale battle back and forth between Ohio State and and Michigan where Ryan day had Don Browns number down Brown was a very very successful defensive coordinator for Michigan for his entire tenure until he got buzzsaw by Ryan days passing attack. And now Ryan day is passing attack is successful in terms of yardage, but they can’t beat Michigan over the top with what Mike McDonald and then Jesse mentor have been able to do by mixing more zone coverage and selling pressure schemes and keeping everybody in front of them. bracketing their number one receiver and making the Quarterback go through all of his progressions. Knowing that CJ Stroud doesn’t want to take off and run, right, which is would be the most dangerous thing that Ryan day could find would be a running Quarterback now. So the fact that Stroud wants to sit in the pocket and either force the ball down the field or, you know, wait for something to come open underneath. It allows them to gain yards and move the sticks. But, again, they’ve they failed to push the ball into the endzone for two straight years now.
Phil Callihan 26:41
You know, I wonder. So, after Michigan, beat Ohio State in October last year, Ryan day, went big. totally rebuilt the defense right, brought in Jim north. It struck me listening to Jim Knowles press conference this year after the game. If he is Ryan days, Don Brown, right, like, brought in well, you’ve already rebuilt the defense. Well, now what do you do? Do you rebuild again, this isn’t what you expected. If anything, it was far worse. And you didn’t have the excuse of the weather. And again, it’s it is interesting, and it’s in front of your home crowd. Right. And so, that that matters. That’s that’s a big deal, especially down in Columbus. So lots to lots of offseason drama I had I think and, you know, while we will predominantly be watching Michigan, definitely a lot a lot of subplots among our among our major rival that we can watch over the next couple of weeks and, and in the offseason as things move forward. So next question. Heisman and Blake Corum didn’t get invited to the ceremony. So my question for you, Clint, is when we look at the overall stats, right? Blake Corum ended up with 14 163 yards on the ground on 247 carries. Donovan Edwards ended up with 872 on 117 yards, or 117. carries. Diamond Edwards averaged seven and a half yards per carry and Blake Corum averaged 5.9 yards per carry. Blake Corum at 18 touchdowns. Donovan Edwards had seven. So here’s my question. Do you think that Blake Corum is Heisman chances? were hurt by how well Donovan Edwards ran this season. And my point being that when Blake Corum went out, you kind of just plug Donovan Edwards in. And he had, you know, a pretty huge game against Ohio State and he ran for, you know, 185 yards in the big 10 championship. Do you think there is a perception that the that not that the running backs aren’t super talented, but that the offensive line does a huge amount of the lifting and the the offensive plays do a huge amount of the lifting? And do you think that hurt Blake Corum is chances of being a finalist for the Heisman at all?
Clint Derringer 29:17
Well, there’s there’s two pieces to that to the answer. I do think. I think Donovan Edwards stepping forward, and the Ohio State game and then in the big 10 championship game shows that the running attack, it starts up front and Michigan’s offensive line and scheme and the diversity that they have with with what they’re running, both with some inside zone or duo run concepts, and some gap locking power and counter concepts. Really, that is the core of their run success. Now, Blake Corum is a dear prints maker. Right? He there’s a reason that he was the number one back and that datamined entrance was the number two back. But Donovan’s success in the last two games does show you that there’s a certain amount of programmed success there. Above and Beyond now, I don’t think that particular realization hurt blanc quorums Heisman campaign, I think just not playing in the second half against Illinois and not having the opportunity to play on the biggest stage in Columbus. Kurt Blake Corum is campaign, right? That was a 17 million people watch that game against Ohio State in Columbus, the largest crowd to watch the loud largest TV audience to see a game in two decades. So it’s definitely the largest by far of this season. So people were waiting to see what was going to happen in that game. I think a lot of the Heisman voters vote early, right after that week 13 rivalry week and before the conference championship games. You know, the eventual winner Caleb Williams, Quarterback from USC, was hurt in in his conference title game, right had kind of a tweaked hamstring, still made a big player to in the first half. But really, his injury, and his inability to move the way that he normally did is the reason that USC could not keep up with Utah in that championship game. But I think most of the votes for Caleb Williams were already cast. So I think that’s what that’s sunk. Blake horns Heisman campaign if he had been healthy enough to compete in the Ohio State game and put forward even half of what Donovan Edwards did in that game. You know, if one of those long runs was Blake Corum Ames against Ohio State, then he’s probably at least a finalist and stays in the picture. And I think he still ended up finishing seventh in the voting, you know, minus half of a game against Illinois and the full game against Ohio State and obviously not playing against Purdue. So missing two and a half games, he still ended up seven. So it’s hard for me to believe that if he had put forward, you know, another touchdown, and 125 yards in each of those games, that he wouldn’t have been sitting right there and had a great chance to win the trophy.
Phil Callihan 32:35
The thought has crossed my mind. And not that Blake Corum isn’t amazing. But I think back to last year when he got hurt, and Hassan Haskins stepped in, right, ended up with, you know, 1327 yards. So, so again, I think, I think my interpretation is Michigan is blessed with great running backs great depth, right. But I can understand, you know, if you’re a if you’re a voter, and you’re thinking, hey, wait a minute, is it the system? Or the back? Or is it both? I think the question might be both, and I think Blake is great. But But again, i i The thought crosses my mind when I see how Hassan just kind of plugged in last year and was just a workhorse, okay. And I remember when Blake went down being super, super concerned, because you know, thunder and lightning, and Hassan was definitely the supporting character for most of the year. And then he just turned it on against Ohio State. And that’s exactly what I thought when I was watching down at Edwards, I was like, oh, here is the supporting player grabbing the highlight or the spotlight at the most opportune time to, you know, kind of cast a shadow over everything. And even though Blake had great stats, you know, again, it crossed my mind when I was watching it. So some other things, you know that that, you know, maybe I’m overthinking it, because I’ve you know, watched the team so closely over two seasons. Some other news that came out. Cade, McNamara and Erick All have left the program. What are your thoughts on that, Clint?
Clint Derringer 34:19
I think I think we knew or kind of had prepared ourselves back in the preseason or in the offseason leading up to this season that whichever Quarterback did not win the Quarterback battle. It was going to be tough to hold on to both of them and really what we had hoped was that we would hold on to both of them through this season thinking that we would definitely need the backup Quarterback to play a role in a pivotal moment. And Cade McNamara has injury in the in the third nonconference game, I think against UConn really changed that whole that whole paradigm. I think, number one, it Uh, obviously, the JJ McCarthy had taken control of the starting job through those first three nonconference games. I think that was clear. We talked about that a lot, obviously, in those podcasts because that was the main storyline early in the season. So JJ McCarthy won the game or won the competition pretty clearly. And then when Cade was not allowed the opportunity to continue playing because of that injury, then it made it clear that he was going to shut it down and start thinking about his future. And I think that’s perfectly reasonable. It also affected I think, how the coaching staff utilized JJ McCarthy, I think we would have seen more Quarterback running attack this season, even than we did. If Cade McNamara was still there and available to be a second string Quarterback. The drop off from JJ to Cade, I think is still smaller than what it would be now. If there was a drop off from JJ to Davis Warner. So I think the safety net being removed in terms of cade McNamara not being available as a backup changed a little bit of the offensive game planning as well. So Cade McNamara, well, I think what he accomplished on the field and as a leader in the 21 season, and then the offseason leading up to 22, is really remarkable. It’s something of certainly of note in the in the history of the program, and I think I certainly will, will continue wishing him well, and, and I’ll be rooting for Iowa in any game that that doesn’t impact Michigan. I have no problem rooting for Iowa. And hopefully, Brian ference doesn’t do the same damage to Cade McNamara that he has done on the rest of their offense for the last five years.
Phil Callihan 36:58
Well, hopefully, Cade will have the gravitas to control that offense rather than be controlled by a lackluster coach. So it’s interesting when I think about Cade, I think back to in fall camp, where, you know, he talked about that he really thought that he had done everything to capture the job.
Cade McNamara 37:25
Absolutely. I think I’m by far playing my best Football that I’ve ever had in my life right now. Chris, what are you doing? Well, what am I doing? Well, I think I’m pushing the ball downfield, I’m throwing the ball with accuracy. My mechanics seem very clean right now. I’m not missing very often. My recognition of the defense right now, it seems very clean. And I think, you know, the more time we’ve spent with the receivers over camp, I’ve been able to gain even more chemistry with them and just finding zones, whether it’s main coverage zone coverage on how we’re dealing with those and our concepts and everything. I think, you know, this team is really ready. I think we’ve done a lot of situational preparation, a lot of work together. And not just myself, but I feel that this offense and this team is extremely prepared for the season.
Phil Callihan 38:13
Then Harbaugh you know, a couple games in the season said:
Jim Harbaugh 38:16
He’s really raised at the last row really the last last week of training camp. I mean, I really hit an inflection point. Last, last last scrimmage that we had in the big house, and it really from there, it’s been, yeah, it’s been just really straight up for him. So that’s 122 and a half weeks, really, every single day has been has been about as good as it can be.
Phil Callihan 38:56
It was really odd covering the team, Clint because I really had no idea from talking to the coaches and the players who was who was the leader, right, because we don’t get to see the practices. And I couldn’t tell if they were trying to lead JJ on so that he wouldn’t leave or if they were trying to keep Cade so he wouldn’t leave. Right like they were some players have talked about how great Cade was some players are talking about how great JJ was. And it’s really, it was an odd thing to witness like, you could see Cade, realizing that the job was slipping away. And I think that there was some frustration there because again, Harbaugh talked about what a great spring he had.
Jim Harbaugh 39:45
I know the competitor Cade is…He’s got gravel in his gut and he’ll, he’ll be ready for his next opportunity. That’s that’s what I predict.
Phil Callihan 39:55
And was saying all great things about Cade and you There was this shine on JJ. Right. And I guess the way I would describe it is that I think, to a man, the players respected Cade, and still do. Okay. But I get the impression that they love JJ. Right. And it’s a different kind of relationship. And it’s a good relationship both ways, right? I mean, you want to be respected and you want to be loved. But just JJ had that little brother enthusiasm that everybody seemed just just laid up to and really be a threat, you know, attract people to so, you know, I could I feel for Cade, because, listen, he did everything we could ask of him last season. Right. He and, you know, the prior season before he was the spark where the program started to turn around, and yet, you know, here he here, he delivers a big 10 championship in the college Football playoff berth. And then you reset the next season and the end he’s kind of you know, back in a in a dogfight. And then JJ was out all spring. So it was all Cade. Right. And, and I really do think Cade believes he did everything in his heart. And I think he just got eclipsed by more talent. And that’s, you know, I think we’ve all been in that position. As you know, whatever level of an athlete we’ve been to be eclipsed by somebody better, you know, it sucks. It’s not fun.
Clint Derringer 41:32
And I’ve said every now it seems like it’s a weekly thing, right? That but I still I tend to believe what Jim Harbaugh says when he makes a clear public statement. So when he came out and said, Listen, art starting quarterbacks are gonna switch for the first game is going to go to Cade, he’s going to be the starter, JJ will get snaps. And then the second game JJ is going to be the starter and Cade will also get snaps. And we’re going to evaluate from there and look at those games and look at the performance look at not just how it ended up statistically, but also, you know, some of the leadership traits that made Cade such a beloved figure, I think and and really endear him to fans and to players in the locker room during that 2020 season, where some of that some of that toughness and willingness to grind through some of those tough times of the 2020 season. He was faced with those challenges, right? So in that second game, where when Cade wasn’t the starter, he came in behind the the second team offensive line, and they had some some protection issues, and he wasn’t given the opportunity to execute at the same level. And I think he was pressing a little bit, I think he may be felt as if he had earned it in the offseason. But in those moments that were very public facing he, JJ clearly performed better in those two games. And then in the third game, Caden’s up injured, right, again, I believe he would have given he would have had more opportunities to continue getting snaps and getting reps had he been able to had he stayed healthy. But the the beginning of the season for Cade McNamara could not have gone worse in the games, and I know a lot of that was not of his doing in terms of protection and breakdowns and getting hit and getting injured. But also starting in that first game. You know, he just didn’t have his best day that day. And I think I still believe that it was his performance that was driving him to the frustration that we saw in that, in that postgame news conference. You know, I know what it looks like, when a competitor is mad at himself, right? And that’s, that’s what I picked up. That’s what I felt from Cade McNamara in that first game, that he might have been disappointed that he was still in a Quarterback battle. But he’s not going to shy away from competition. So here’s the competition. Here’s his shot, and he didn’t play his best. And Jay did play well. And then JJ really played well in his starting opportunity. So all of that adds up to a lot of frustration. It certainly is not a surprise how it ended up and I again, I really hope that he is able to put together a great season at Iowa, I hope that it kind of catapults him into a career at the next level. I certainly think that he is capable of doing what’s necessary to you know, to make a 53 man roster in the NFL and and serve a functional role in the NFL as a Quarterback.
Phil Callihan 44:43
The other thing that I think we need to point out is that JJ started that game under the weather adversity, right. You know, here you are preparing for your game and the game had that delay because of the the epic rainstorm You know, and the whole, your whole pregame ritual got disrupted. And you know, here he is warming up in the tunnel instead of on the field. And again, you got to give it you got to give credit to him. And, you know, I do look back on those breakdowns that, you know didn’t help Cade. Right? And I could just see Yes, he was pressing, but you also had some bad luck there. Right? And and you just look and go, Wow, the offensive line is lights out all year and they did have some failures at some inopportune time. So, so again, wish Cade the best. Again, you know, I hope if if he somehow ends up facing Michigan in the big 10 championship game next year. And you know, one thing we, you know, one thing I didn’t mention is it was a predominant Michigan crowd in Indianapolis. And I would expect it to be again, I would expect the Michigan faithful to to give him quite a cheer, you know, as a sign of respect. And if we ever face him on the field again, quality guy, you know, Michigan man, all that good stuff and wish him the best, like you said, another player who, oh, and the one thing I’ll say about about the last thing, and the key thing is, so the other thing that I thought was really weird, is that all during Harbaugh’s tenure he was really reluctant to talk about injuries, except when Cade got hurt.
Jim Harbaugh 46:30
Yeah, Cade unfortunately. Yes, is think his foot was caught in the ground and got hit by a hit from the side of the leg and probably going to be out for a few weeks not going to be a season ending thing. I don’t, I don’t think but he’ll he’ll miss miss some time.
Phil Callihan 46:49
Maybe that was just a sign of how bad the injury was. But I just that was another weird note that I that I thought was odd. So another player who’s decided to leave the program, and you know, had a huge moment last season versus Penn State, probably, you know, the moment that helped pivot that season toward the success that Michigan ultimately had. Eric Hall has decided to leave the program. And you know, another point, Caden was a captain and left and Erick All was also a captain. So what are your thoughts on the news that Erick All decided to leave?
Clint Derringer 47:27
First of all, from from an emotional fan standpoint, it’s just as disappointing and sad to see a really great player and great leader, go. I don’t know that he’s committed to another program yet. I know he showed up at Iowa’s basketball game with Cade. So it would make sense if he ends up over there. Iowa certainly had success turning tight ends into NFL players, but it’s just frustrating to lose a really great player like that. And this particular case, being tied to Erick halls, health status, right there’s there’s a lot of whispering and pointing and some innuendo, especially on social media coming from, you know, direct sources, indirect sources. From from the best that I can tell, this is all tied to Eric all’s back injury and his decision to have surgery and where he had surgery and how all of that was supported or not supported by the view of medical staff. And it’s, it’s a reminder, again, in a conversation that you and I have semi regularly that the kids that are really putting their their health and bodies and their their future earning potential on the line for the university. It’s sometimes you get these stark reminders of who was really sacrificing and who was really taking and bearing the brunt of the risk for, for the program for the Football program to remain successful. And then when there are tough decisions to be made. The person who ends up on the short end is almost always the player who has been out there risking their body for our entertainment. So, again, it circles back for me to a lot of those conversations about player compensation and thinking first, from the player’s perspective, I think Jim Harbaugh has a long history of being an advocate for the players in every facet, and this seems to be a certainly an unfortunate scenario that has unfolded where there’s Eric halls not going to be on the roster next season. And I’m sure that that that was a very a difficult decision, especially all tied to this, this medical status,
Phil Callihan 50:04
Really disappointing. I really liked him again, he delivered that key play versus Penn State last season. And we have, you know, if you go back and listen to the podcast of that game, we have those great quotes. He was really excited. And it’s one of the reasons I really like to cover the team is you see players when they’re successful, right. And heading into this season, Harbaugh was touting him as an NFL talent. You know, there was a story about how, you know, he had a new son, and that you got the impression listen, he wanted to have a great year, put some great performances on tape, and GoPro, right. That was the plan. And he was hampered by injury right out of the gate. And you know, you just, well, we don’t know what’s going to happen. And the rumors swirled and the rumors swirled. And then the pictures on Twitter of he’s having surgery and Hey, guys, thumbs up, right. So the other thing that struck me is down in Columbus, you’re watching the team come up the tunnel. And again, we have access to a area off the field, took a lot of photos. And if you go to the website, you can see a lot of those postgame celebration pictures. And Eric all was so happy Clint, huge smile there with his teammates. And I remember thinking, no good, he’s gonna be back right here. He’s, how could you be part of this and not want to come back? Right. And in that subsequent week, when you know, mentioning NIL, I went to Ann Arbor HopCat. And they’re advertising the Erick All burger. Right? Which I’m sure he got, you know, some sponsorship money, you know, related to NIL I ordered it and I felt great ordering it right. I’m like, great, good for Erik all glad to, you know, help support them. And then just a few days later, the news broke that he was leaving the program. And again, just a disappointment because it he seemed like a really quality guy and, and you just you want the best for the players. And like you said, they’re the ones paying the price. So not only is he not going pro, but he’s transferring to another school. And you know, lots of changes with that and you wonder, okay, so how is that gonna affect him seeing his kid I mean, really, you start all these other thoughts kind of come flooding in and you just you just feel bad. Right? So, you know, if if he ends up in Iowa, and we don’t know that for sure yet, but if he ends up in Iowa with Cade, you know, I hope he does. Great. I hope he plays well. Every game except, you know, when when he phases Michigan, and I will still cheer him. You know, when he takes the field. If he ended up taking the field against Michigan, I’ll still cheer him and wish him the best.
Clint Derringer 52:52
Yeah, I think a great kid, great young man, great attitude, great work ethic. Did everything in terms of practice and, and performance that we could, we could have asked for his fans. You know, I think Erick All kind of set the standard for being a really dangerous pest threat, combination with a really good run blocker. And I think without Luke Schoonmaker I don’t think that you end up with Colston Loveland developing the way that he did this year. So Erick, all really kind of set the standard in that tight end room, or the last three or four seasons, and certainly the 21 and 22 seasons and that success and the role that he played. So, you know, he leaves, he leaves quite a legacy in Ann Arbor, even even as he transfers. So again, from from me as a fan, disappointing to see him go. I will certainly, like you said, be cheering for him personally, to have great success and make it to the next level. And whatever team he ends up with, as long as it doesn’t impact Michigan, they’ll be for his team as well. And, again, keep this in mind when when we’re talking about who’s really who’s really risking it and putting it on the line for a multibillion dollar entertainment industry.
