Phil and Clint discuss an even bigger Big Ten conference (the BIGGEST Ten EVER!), NCAA officials make a bigger joke of themselves (and that’s saying something), bigger scoreboards and more options for your drinking pleasure at the Big House, and trouble at Northwestern.
Support the Podcast, Get Gear
Subscribe:
Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Pandora | Stitcher | Email | RSS |
Podcast Archive
Podcast Transcript
Phil Callihan 0:00
You M go blue.com by fans for fans since 1999. Hello, welcome to this edition of the UNM go blue.com podcast. This is Phil Callihan, along with Clint Derringer. And we have a lot going on in college Football a lot impacting the Michigan Wolverines. The big news is the big 10 has expanded again, Oregon and Washington will be joining the crew. So well, Clint, what do you think about that? I mean, we just had USC and UCLA announced they were joining. And now we have two more joining the club.
Clint Derringer 0:43
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s crazy. I mean, not from a very high level in the grand scheme of things. It kind of fits with this sort of inevitable march toward, you know, larger conferences, super conferences, you know, it’s related, of course, to the playoff expanding, sort of in the in the grander context, I think it’s, it fits, but the way that it played out, and the the timeline, and the are they in are they out back and forth of this week is really just been crazy, it’s been tough to you could tell that there must be people that are talking to everybody at the same time, you know, and I get a deal or a conversation over here, the PAC 12 is ready to announce a deal that with with Apple, you know, immediate rights deal, and try to kind of lock down the conference for the PAC 12. And then four or five members jump, you know, three to the big 12, two more to the big 10. And they’re down to four active members starting in the 24 season. So all of that played out, inside of, you know, maybe like 36 or 48 hours, late this week, it was just bananas, the timeline and the scrambling, and trying to keep up with kind of the headlines and what had changed. So like I said, I think we’ve talked about this especially in the offseasons the last few years, that there’s this is kind of you can see the path that is laid out here, obviously driven by ever increasing revenue. And it fits into that that narrative. But man, what a wild week for almost every conference, it has something going on right now. It’s I don’t think that this has come to rest, I think that there will be more headlines in the near future. It’s just it just doesn’t feel stable or balanced at this time. Well, and I think that’s the interesting point is that this kind of just shock the system, not really a surprise that things were changing, but I think shocked how quickly it happened. And it’s not done. Right, I think that we’re all kind of sitting here waiting for the next shoe to drop. And, you know, when you get into the details,
Phil Callihan 3:19
USC and UCLA, we’re coming in as full revenue share partners, you know, you have Oregon Washington coming in with going to be getting $30 million a year, which is, which is not chump change, and it will go up a million dollars a year. But full big 10 members get $60 million. So they’re coming in as as you know, with half a share, right. And still, you know, looking at the long term, they realize that this is where you want to be revenue wise. This also kind of well not kind of nukes, the schedules that were released. You know, we had talked about that with the flex schedules and the protected rivalries. And the big 10 has said that they’re going to reissue scheduled for the 24 and 25 seasons. So hopefully nobody bought their airfares or made any big plans. And again, just incredible. You know, the last time, you know, when we talked about USC and UCLA joining, you know, I said, Well, you have the big 10 going from sea to shining sea. And now you’re basically going to virtually every corner of the country with the exception of SEC territory. So the big 10 is really kind of you know, and I gotta give them credit, you know, I’m not a big fan. You know, I haven’t been a big fan of the management of the big 10 or the leadership, but they really have pulled these deals off. And whereas you would say five or 10 years ago, the SEC was the dominant conference and everybody was kind of chasing the Big 10 has responded, and the SEC still is, has a lot of shine to it. You know, there’s no doubt there, but the big 10 has has made some strategic moves to kind of be one of the big two, right? We can, we can debate which one’s the big one. And I think the big 10 needs more Football national championships to really lay claim. But from a revenue standpoint, and a a geographic footprint stand standpoint, the big 10 is put itself in a really interesting position.
Clint Derringer 5:43
Yeah, and you mentioned it there in that last, that last sentence, I think it depends on which context you’re talking about, when you’re talking about a big conference, or a dominant conference, whether it’s about results, you know, on on the field or across all of the sports, you know, revenue, non revenue, Olympic sports, however you categorize them, you start looking at that way, is one particular metric. But really what is driving this is the revenue sharing model, and the access to resources that it brings, and the relationship with the different media companies, television companies, that drives that. And you’re right, that the big 10 While the SEC was dominating on field success, and still continues to this day, in terms of Football success, the big 10 was able to find a path through, you know, expanding their geographic footprint and acquiring more and more market share in terms of TV revenue, that they kind of forced their way into the conversation at the top. without, without the, you know, without having to try to chase down the SEC in terms of onfield success. So now, the two larger conferences in terms of revenue sharing the SEC, and the big 10 are kind of pulling away from the pack, the other the other conferences, and you can see the strain that that’s causing, it’s it’s not only the PAC 12. So the PAC 12 demise here has kind of a long history, I don’t know it well enough to try to kind of recap it all. But I can tell you, that they got all the way here to the end of their media rights deal, without a good replacement, you know, being negotiated. And that made the member institutions so nervous, that they kind of became ripe for the picking that the decision is at the end of the rainbow here with Oregon. And with Washington, there was a there was a if you stay in the Pac 12. And look at this deal with Apple. It’s short term, you could get out after two years. But it’s going to be about whether this package drives apple plus subscriptions up right there’s kind of a contingency or or a clause there that, yes, you could make a lot of money per institution, but it’s got to drive more subscriptions to to the platform. And if it fails, then you know, you don’t make any money. It’s kind of like a commission model. And the guaranteed model with the big 10, even with half a share was financially equivalent to what they could make, maybe in the Pac 12 deals. So it’s what drives the whole, the whole thing was financial stability. You know, these these large, Athletic Department Budgets, if you start messing around with the main source of revenue, 30 million a year, like you’re saying for half a share in the big 10 60 million a year for these other you know, full member institutions in the New Deal. If you start making that fluctuate, then the hard decisions are going to become real, the four members of the PAC 12 that are still remaining are going to have real issues without a deal in place, you know, the main source of their revenue. Being cut means what for the rest of their athletic department, they’re going to have to figure out something in the real near term here. So these are becoming real world decisions. And that’s it’s not just like a huge college Football game of Risk like we treat it sometimes in the media and as fans but you know, these athletic departments have almost 100% of their annual revenue on the table getting you know snatched away from them is going to create an existential crisis similar to what we saw with the pandemic. So it’s it’s real business and starting to be crunch time for a lot of these institutions. And the members that jumped out of the PAC 12 created an opportunity and the big 10 swooped in just like, just like the big 12, the big 12 added three of the PAC 12 members in the last week, and Colorado was one of the first dominoes to fall in this particular realignment cycle. So really crazy, really crazy. And like I said, it just doesn’t feel to me at all that that it’s stabilized, there are still more questions than answers. Like you mentioned that the schedule, the lot of effort went into creating this scheduling model for the big 10. Clearly, the league office expected at least to get to 2024. Before any of this happened, right. All of this was kind of under the assumption that the PAC 12 would get their stuff together. And that any opportunities to continue expanding, would have been down the road. And the fact that they couldn’t get it done, really, hyper accelerated all of this change into one offseason here in 2023. And now, it’s really feels like we’ve crossed the Rubicon.
Phil Callihan 11:24
So what’s interesting when you jump into the details of the of the way the revenue splits gonna be, right. USC and UCLA are full portions, right. And this is because they were member institutions when the big deal got negotiated, right. So that is it. So they they got in right underneath the wire, right. But what’s interesting is, so Oregon and Washington are gonna get 30 million, but it’s gonna go up a million every year. Right? So no doubt, right. And then the other interesting thing, when you jump into the numbers is, it’s expected to be 60 million, it could be more, depending on ancillary deals. So and then, you know, the current deal runs through 2930. And then then they’re going to be, you know, full participating members. So there’s increased pressure on more changes, right? Because the more of of the budget continues to need to be fed, right? As you add the schools, and they’re expecting this money, the expectations go up, the stakes go up, as you said, it’s, you’re not I love that analogy that, you know, viewing this college Football landscape as a game of Risk, right. But when you look at it, and again, I go back, listen, I’m still salty about Rutgers and Maryland. Okay, I still roll my eyes when I see them on the schedule. But when you see that as the first domino and seeing how this is ending, you know, and I can’t say this, I have to tip my hat. Right, that. And again, as the SEC was dominating on the field, the big 10 was making moves here. And, you know, the next thing is, alright, so you have the SEC kind of geographically landlocked, right. So I think the, you know, Clint, you’ve mentioned this in previous podcasts. Well, okay, so you got the big 10 From sea to shining sea. Just locked up the West Coast, huh? You kind of look to the ACC and wonder, you know, first where does this put Notre Dame as one of the big revenue, quote unquote, independents kind of aligned with the ACC Football wise, right. And, and the reason I say that is, you know, if you the real nugget in this deal for me is Oregon, right? With Oregon bill being aligned so tightly with Nike, you would have believed that wherever they ended up means a lot more than just than the sum of its parts, right. It’s, it makes sense for them to come make sense. Partnership wise, it makes sense brand wise. So where does that leave Notre Dame in all this because if the SEC is surrounded, okay, Notre Dame is completely engulfed, okay, I mean, they’re, they’re completely encircled. So what’s going to what’s it going to mean for them long term? And then, you know, if, if we’re looking at this as a game of Risk, you know, how far can the big 10 reach down into ACC territory All right. And, you know, territory, typically dominated by the SEC team wise. It really puts the ACC schools in an interesting position to negotiate with both conferences. And I’m, I’m kind of counting counting down till the ACC implodes.
Clint Derringer 15:22
Yeah, I think there’s the main difference to my understanding, again, which is, I’m not an expert by any means. But I do try to keep track of this thing. The ACC television deal goes through 2036. And they have granted rights agreement, that would have a huge buyout clause, and also additional rights, that an institution that leaves the ACC, would still be forking over to the conference. So this is very similar, at least the way I kind of internalize it here. Like when there’s a big coach, a high profile, coach, that modes reminds me a lot of when rich Rodriguez went from West Virginia to Michigan, he had a buyout clause in West Virginia, and he was kind of looking at Michigan to try to help him either pay that buyout or, you know, help him win in court. So they didn’t have to pay that buyout, right now that ACC institutions have something like that. So Florida State has been outwardly very verbal, in, in, in the media publicly, and, you know, behind closed doors, apparently, that they’re not happy with the revenue structure of the ACC, and this TV deals not adequate for them through 2036. But they, they’re stuck. They, they know that nobody’s gonna pay, I think $120 million, just to break them free from from this deal that they’ve got with the ACC. So that, to me, is really the next puzzle that that gets solved, either we get closer to 2036. Right. So the TV deal will be renegotiated and get opened back up sometime in a couple of years. That’s when those institutions will feel like they can start making a deal elsewhere to find out if they could jump. So we’re probably two years away from that, whereas just a normal part of the cycle and the negotiating timeline, the ACC will start jumping. But if it wasn’t for this grant of rights deal that really is, seems to be pretty ironclad and keeping the institutions stuck where they are, I think the ACC, very well could have been going through a very similar kind of open market, kind of a flea market phase that the PAC 12 did here. And so the ACC lawyers that put that grant of rights agreement in place right now are the main thread that’s holding the ACC together. And then we will see whether the ACC tries to become a fourth kind of leg on the stool with the SEC big 10. And the big 12, I would say is not an equivalent in onfield success or revenue sharing. But they do have a large number of member institutions, at least to the point that they have to be part of the conversation. But we’ll see three large conferences is kind of tough. I don’t see the ACC splitting up and joining the other three conferences. Either they become the fourth leg of the stool, or I think there’s probably everything opens back up and we start we continue gravitating towards two very large super conferences, anchored in the Big Ten’s original footprint and the SE C’s original footprint. So the battle will be over the ACC institutions and how that splits. And I don’t think that happens until somebody figures out how to get out from under that grant of rights agreement or time just the clock just runs out on that agreement, and then it’s another free for all.
Phil Callihan 19:25
Well, what’s interesting about that, and again, great explanation. Great points. When you look at the estimated ramp up for revenue, okay. So, right now, the estimate for the big 10 full share is just under 60 million per team. By 2029. It’s expected to be almost $95 million per team, right? The payout for SEC teams is estimated to be $105 million by 2029, okay, the ACC estimate 2029 is $55 million again, not chump change. But when you start looking at, you know that number, I can see someone, okay? In these TV offices saying, you know, $100 million is a lot if we want to bust somebody out. But when you look at it long term, I could see the Big 10 in the SEC, and their respective TV partners trying to work something out, right. And again, it’s just, you know, stay tuned, it may not happen this year. But it’s definitely one of the offseason risk moves that we need to see because, and the other interesting thing is, if these revenues continue to climb, the way they’re estimated, I, I think that’s very much speculative at this point, with the way streaming is impacting, I think there’s, there’s going to be only more pressure on, you know, as people continue to cut the cord and leave cable providers. You know, there’s this is a chalkboard that’s going to be erased and rewritten a few times. But the ACC is definitely a point of interest. And, again, those lawyers made a really good deal. They put some really good clauses in it. But when there’s this much money sloshing around, things happen, and it’ll definitely be interesting to see it.
Clint Derringer 21:37
And, again, I I said it correctly, but I think I kind of implied incorrectly, that it’s going to be a couple of years that that deal for the ACC goes to the 2036. It’s a 20 year deal. And if I think the ACC member institutions feel stuck, seeing the huge shares go up for everybody else, and the way that they’re sharing it, across the teams in the conference. If the major you know, if FSU, for example, finds a way to negotiate a buyout and get out of that. What then happens to the remaining to the remaining institution? So that’s what I was kind of implying that it’s going to take a couple years. But yeah, that TV deal doesn’t run out in 2026. It runs out in 2036. And that long term commitment to the current deal, I think, is what makes the ACC schools a little itchy. So and just to be clear, right? Like, so there’s big numbers sloshing around, right.
Phil Callihan 22:48
Apparently, Florida State tried to negotiate or is in the midst of negotiating a $300 million buyout, okay, with all the different penalties and things. So lots of money. And, you know, in a, in a perfect world, right, or a world where this happens, you have to imagine that, if they’re paying 300 million, they already have an idea. A posting, shall we say, or written on a napkin? How much money they’re gonna make. So, again, definitely stay tuned. Definitely interesting times to be a college Football fan. And, you know, if you’re a big fan of tradition, you may not, you know, be super excited about this. But change is coming, and it’s not slowing down. So we just need to stay tuned. And thankfully, I’m really glad that the big 10 is in the position. It’s in rather than your breath.
Clint Derringer 24:04
the the one, at least right now, underlying comforting thing is that the, the games and the member school, the teams aren’t folding, right? The institutions aren’t folding to Football programs still exist, the games are still there to be played. So for fans, it’s going to feel slightly different. Right? It’s, the changes are going to feel somewhat strange over time, but in terms of TV or going to Ann Arbor on a Saturday, you know, the games there. So as long as there’s that, then then I think the riots will, you know, get to be held at bay, but who knows, right? Who knows what it turns into, on a national scale, you know, for for schools were pinched financially. And like you said, I’m glad that our favorite team, our favorite schools member, the Big 10, which happens to be one of the big dogs right now. So that’s fortunate for us. But hope, hopefully, when this all comes to settle, it’s going to be a lot different than what we’re used to for sure. But let’s hope that we can still find what makes games Saturdays great, and the whole Football season in the fall great.
Phil Callihan 25:32
So what I hate about this, is as I hate all things, Notre Dame, as the great Bo Schembechler once said To hell with Notre Dame, is this puts them in an amazing position. Okay, either to stay quasi independent and make a bajillion dollars. Or, I can think of nothing that would put a bigger dagger in the heart of the big 10 than to if they were to end up aligning with sec. And again, just more more to follow, you can definitely see that big numbers are going to be flowing around and we’ll have to see how this ACC deal if it’s able to maintain itself moving forward. So on to more specific Michigan news. Apparently, Coach Harbaugh is going to be sitting out the first four games of the year a suspension with our favorite folks from the NCAA. You know, Clint, I really hate the NCAA sometimes. And, you know, we’ve talked in the past, that Harbaugh part of his nature, you know, early in his Michigan tenure, he kind of enjoyed showing up referees, and I think in various times that came back to bite us. And he got better on that, right. And he also went through a phase where he was calling out the NCAA, and not that they don’t deserve to be called out. But, you know, as I always say, you know, if you jump up in the crosshairs, don’t be surprised if somebody pulls the trigger. And here we have that. Coach, Harbaugh will be suspended for first four games of the season four relatively minor NCAA violations. But apparently, it’s not the violation. It’s the legit dishonesty in that he exhibited during the investigation. So what are your thoughts on are on this situation coming up?
Clint Derringer 27:50
Well, my feelings about the actual content haven’t changed since we talked about it before, when that this was, it’s probably about 18 months ago or so that that this first hit the radar, and we talked about it. Most of this stems from violations that occurred during the during the pandemic, when there were no contact time periods. You know, the Michigan program was in contact with recruits. And in terms of breaking rules, right, you and I think kind of came to, you know, kind of a de facto agreement that neither one of us is happy when when the program is breaking rules, you know, in the grand scheme of things. Again, these were even in the NCAA terms, these were relatively minor infractions. And I wished that they weren’t there. I hate the distraction that they become, but in the grand scheme of things that are much worse. You know, there are many worse things happening in the world of college football. In terms of dishonesty during the investigation, it seems to boil down to whether Harbaugh cooperated fully or recalled any other particular infraction some of this stems around from, you know, receipts related to providing lunch or buying, buying a burger for potentially it’s tough to sort out which detail fits into which part of the whole thing. But the NCAA to me is trying to seize on an opportunity to amidst all of this other chaos, that really is above and beyond their troll trying to or that they that they do impose some sort of consequence when And when they get a high level, a high profile coach in their crosshairs, especially, like you said, one that has, you know, thumbed his nose at the NCAA. In the past, you know, you’re more than once. So, to me, it seems like more of a credibility grab for the NCAA than it is about the seriousness of what Harbaugh and Michigan may have done. But that’s not to excuse, of course, the you know, what actually occurred, it’s just this is now three years old, at a minimum, and the world, the world was such a terrible place three years ago, for us to be re litigating this in, in the court of public opinion, seems, you know, somewhat, you know, somewhat useless to me. Again, there’s a little bit of humor in there, probably, if this was about, you know, Ohio State or some other institution and the NCC or the SEC, maybe, maybe I would sound differently. But this is, to me, this is more of a naked credibility. Boost, that the NCAA is trying to show that, that their paper badge still still mean something, and that that ship has sailed for me that the NCAA seated their authority, in all matters related to Football a long, long time ago. And they need to figure out a way to gracefully exit, you know, to the backstage and figure this out. And there’s got to be some other type of governing body, governing body in the sport of football, because the NCAA is just woefully inadequate to reallyact as a rules enforcement authority in what they’re trying to do with Michigan here.
Phil Callihan 32:05
I always like to use traffic analogies, right? You know, like,hey, and again, it’s always bad to break the rules, right? But it’s one thing if you’re five miles over the speed limit, and 100 miles over the speed limit. This isn’t even a five mile and five mile an hour over the speed limit thing. This is, ooh, your tags are expired. And I mean, it’s so nitpicky, right? And, again, yes, as you said, we’re definitely on the Homer side of the equation here. But, you know, I just I shake my head, this is, you know, this is what you’re going after, this is what you’re doing. And I definitely feel like this is a slap at Harbaugh. You know, Harbaugh has frequently, less frequently in recent years, but has never been shy and criticizing the NCAA on when it falls short, and it lives falling short. You know, it perpetually exists in a falling short situation, as you said, it’s it. It is a failed state. Okay. It’s just horrible. So, you know, it’s unfortunate that this is going to mar the beginning of the season of what we hope to be such an amazing season. But I will tell you, it’s a season where that holds so much promise, but I tell you, you know that Harbaugh is going to use this as motivation. Okay. And, you know, the good news in this is that it’s going to give other coaches on the staff a chance to take a greater role on game day, it’s going to provide fuel for the fire for the team, you know that Harbaugh will be talking about this, you know, they will be talking about this. You know, not to make light of the situation. But, Clint, I think you or I could show up on game day and handle these duties against these four teams. Again, it’s not saying the head coach is not important, but the bulk of the work is done, you know, before the game and these games will not be stern tests. Okay. You know, again, it’ll be a chance for other other coaches and I don’t believe the the final decision has been made on exactly who is going to hold the reins or, you know, Michigan has super qualified people on staff who will will take advantage of this opportunity. Michigan will be fine, and Harbaugh will come back with even more fire in his belly with even more enthusiasm unknown to mankind. And let’s be clear, even more hate and disdain for the NCAA than he are already had. So yeah,
Clint Derringer 35:01
The other part of this that is strange is the the sanction is the four game suspension. Again, this is all kind of leaked information. We don’t know this officially yet. But it’s likely, you know, based on what we’ve seen in the past with similar sanctions that Harbaugh was suspended, like you said, just on game day, which means that he’ll be coaching, you know, the week of preparation where the bulk of the work happens, like you said, and even that, you know, even if, even if we believed in the NCAA as a governing body, or some type of rules authority, that it’s, it’s a, it’s a paper tiger in terms of sanctions. Again, this is something that is only for show to show that you did something. But that really, tangibly has very little impact on as a punishment, you know, which, again, I’m glad that they’re not over punishing a small cry, for sure. But to even have this as an option, because it had been negotiated in the past with other coaches that had been suspended for various reasons, you know, just again, shows to me that this is much more about showing in the in the court of public opinion, that you did something which is just more fresh, it’s more frustrating than nothing to try to make it a song and dance, and using smoke and mirrors to make it look like you did something wrong. And in reality, it’s, you know, it’s nothing.
Phil Callihan 36:53
Now, I don’t think Coach Harbaugh would do this. Okay. But I think it would be hilarious. If Michigan has had, shall we say, celebrity captains for games, you know, people will come out for the coin toss. It would be hilarious. If Michigan and Harbaugh use this as an opportunity to raise the profile. Right? Like, could you imagine if Tom Brady were to come back and be the honorary coach or Charles Woodson, were to come back and be honorary coach? You know, part of me hopes that, okay, I don’t believe they would do this. I don’t think Michigan would do this. But I would i Half of me would love to see Harbaugh tweak the NCAA and turn this into something that raises the profile of the program even higher, right. And I I would not put it past him, I would not put it past him that it has not crossed his mind to do something like that. You know, the other thing that I thought was that, you know, I could see the headline, Harbaugh suspended Harbaugh coaches, right like to Jay for to have Jay Harbaugh be the the interim coach. And again, for no other reason, just to tweak the NCAA. You know, and and now, the idea of a celebrity coach or something like that would would be a distraction that we probably don’t need. But again, it it does, you know, Tom Brady has time on his hands. Charles Woodson has time on his hands. I, like I said it, and in we talked about, you know, the Risk Board of college Football expansion and my mind, like, I would love for that to happen. And and, you know, you don’t want to provoke the NCAA anymore. But I, you know, I, I, I’m sure that he’s thought of something like that. Having, knowing how his mind works, I’m, I’m pretty sure it’s crossed his mind. Probably not the best, probably not the best idea. But you know,
Clint Derringer 39:05
For entertainment value, I definitely hear Yeah, I would imagine that he, his main focus is to minimize the distraction, like you, you kind of alluded to putting his particular battle with, with the NCAA as an institution in front of four games, at all is probably already bad enough. I would imagine he would like this to just get through that phase of the season and try to get back. You know, everybody’s focused on the task at hand. Starting in week five and forward. It’s got to be his main focus now is to just move past it. And I would say that’s, that’s probably the advice that he was getting. When they went into negotiations to try to get this resolved. Let’s let’s get this out for hanging over what should be a very special season? And, and move on here?
Phil Callihan 40:06
Now what I wonder is, you know, when I first heard this, I’m like, well, gives him more time to cut his grass. Right. But in all seriousness, can you imagine what it’s going to be like him? Like for him to be watching these games and not be there? I mean, that’s I, that would be a story. I wonder, I, you know, I would imagine he might sit and watch the game with his dad. But again, I can just like I said, he’s gonna come back fired up. And definitely, you know, you can’t do an eye roll on a podcast, but just understand eye rolling all through the discussions on this. It’s just, you know, you know, even you know, when we go to ball games, you bump into people who worked for the NCAA. And it is, it’s the hardest thing to do to just not just, you gotta be kidding. I mean, you got to be respectful. You got to be nice, but it’s like, okay, all right, then. Some other potential things changing that may impact the fan experience at Michigan Stadium. You know, in addition to the wonderful new scoreboards, which I have to say, when they first announced that they were increasing the size of the scoreboards, you know, I was like, okay, bigger, I hope they have more stats, we finally got to see some of the video of and you know, it was really nice. They were showing clips of the Michigan, Ohio State Games, that was great. So again, going to be all inspiring, can’t wait for that. But another change that’s happening is in the state of Michigan, it appears that alcohol sales will be coming to stadiums near us. No definitive word on Michigan Stadium yet or not. But you know, I always use the analogy of does it mean more money for the university? Yes, no. If it’s yes, then it’s coming. So little bit of cynicism there. But so Clint, what do you think about about those potete that potential change coming?
Clint Derringer 42:17
I think it comes with potential risks and problems, of course. But these are risks and problems that are, you know, handled and mitigated at other events locally, other college venues have been doing this without any major incident, to my knowledge. So it’s, it’s something that can be managed, but it’ll be additional headache and risk to deal with. In terms of fan experience, right? It’s, I don’t know how much different it will be, you know, I don’t think that it’s a, it’s, it’s no secret that, you know, there’s a large portion of the 100 plus 1000 people that are walking in that had been drinking alcohol, you know, for a long time before the game, right. And the filters that are in place to stop additional alcoholic coming in with some of those patrons are those filters are pretty, pretty loose. So people are already, you know, intoxicated, before, during and after the game. So I don’t know how much it’s going to feel different, certainly, to some degree, but I don’t think it’s going to be like a light switch, you know, from off to on, I think it’ll probably be a little bit more visible of a problem, definitely something that you’re going to want to be cognizant of in terms of travel and preparation, but again, this is just a move from, you know, a volume diet, like, you know, from six to seven, or from six to eight. The risks and problems are already there, they probably just get a little bit greater in magnitude, if I had to guess.
Phil Callihan 44:12
So I don’t like this. Okay. When I think back to the negative experiences I’ve had at Michigan Stadium, other stadiums, other pro stadiums 99% of the problems have been because people have been drunk. And I know, it’s, you know, it’s there. You know, it’s always a few bad actors, right. The thing that I enjoyed about Michigan games, is that yes, people there are definitely people who will come in sloshed, right. But usually by halftime, they’ve, you know, the, the edges off a little bit, right. And if they’re, if they’re really there to drink, that’s when they’re going to leave and go back to the tailgate. Okay. So you know, And we know this right that there’s been problems with people coming in drunk. I mean, there’s a reason that they announced on the scoreboard if you’re having problems in your section, right, text this number, and that was before you were continuing to feel like, okay. Even in my seats, okay, I’ve had some really negative. And when I say even in my seats, I mean, I’m really down low. And incident happened probably about, say, around 10 years ago, and, and I say 10 years ago, because I don’t sit in my seats that often, you know, I have the privilege of being in the press box for most games now. But, you know, my seats are in the second row, we have a cop right there. Okay. I had, you know, and I’ve said this told the story before, our seats are in the second row, it’s row B. Okay. So whenever you get new people in the stadium who think they’re in row two, they come down and sit in their seats, right? So we had some drunken idiots come down, you know, ask them to move, they got belligerent they move they were only two rows behind us, okay, because it goes a b One, two, right. And they were assholes. Okay, there’s another way to put it. So much so that the cop who sits in our section, who always looks up, looked up and said, Hey, do I need to do something? And I’m just like, just let it go. Right. And, you know, they, you know, they sobered up and left early. So that was nice. But again, I I know, this is going to happen, if not this year, if not already. You know, it’s it’s an as you said, there, there are filters in place. You know, I think back to, you know, their situations, Lions games were, before they moved over to Ford Field, they used to have sections that were alcohol free, because they had so many problems with people, right, where, you know, people didn’t want to bring their kids. So again, I know, it’s, you know, I know their controls in place. I have no doubt it’s coming. If it’s if it’s not already happening, and great. You know, you know, again, it’ll enhance some people’s game experience. And hopefully, the problems can be minimized. But yeah, I’m, I’m not, not looking forward to it. But, you know, again, it is what it is. And just like with expansion, where, you know, I say changes coming, this is one of the changes that’s coming. And it’s, it’s, it’s kind of pointless to, you know, it’s like, I don’t want to be the guy yelling at kids to get off my lawn. But that’s what I feel like right here.
Clint Derringer 47:41
Yeah. I wonder if the, in terms of fan experience, if there’s more, you know, just more more congestion, you know, if there are people that normally never went to the concession stands on the concourse, you know, maybe that increased traffic feels a little bit different would be another negative. But we’ll see. I think it’s it there, there is a risk that it it has a negative effect on the overall experience. But that that risk wasn’t zero before. So let’s hope that it comes with with enough management and just that, that it doesn’t become, you know, untenable, and that whatever the benefits are for the athletic department. Certainly hope they’re worth it, you know, because the, it is going to create more frequency or greater magnitude of problems. So we’ll see. Hopefully, they can keep it contained. Another story impacting big 10 Football, the northwestern hazing situation. And
Phil Callihan 48:49
I have to say, I’m surprised and I’m not surprised, okay. Northwestern has had such a sterling reputation of, if not success on the field, success off the field, right, high academics. You know, I always used to joke that the Big 10 keeps Northwestern in the conference to raise the grade point of, you know, Nebraska and Rutgers and other places. But it’s not a joke, right. And again, this is a whole nother. So you’re going to fire the coach, I believe all the coaches in place all the other coaches, and you kind of roll your eyes like wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay. So I understand that the head coach is responsible, right? It’s kind of like the captain of a ship. And yet, so they do an investigation. And, you know, in typical, very, you know, it wasn’t NCAA, right, but kind of like the NCAA. Well, bad stuff happened. So we’re going to spend, we’re going to say suspends you in the middle of the summer, right? For two weeks. And you look and go, I mean, on the outside, I go, well, it couldn’t have been that bad because that kind of suspension really isn’t a suspension, right? And then some more things come out some more media attention. And then, you know, they, they fire him. Northwestern comes out of this just looking bad, right? Like bad in the investigation bad in the way they do. They handled it bad in the reaction. And I think it’s only gonna get worse. Right. I mean, lawsuits are coming, lawsuits are already in place. And it, it’s just, it again, I just I just shake my head at the whole things. And listen, I don’t want to minimize hazing. At All right. But what kind of investigation did you do? And then oh, well, now that people are paying attention, it’s just it’s just a really puzzling situation for me.
Clint Derringer 51:04
Yeah, I think the at the top line, the takeaway is that nobody, no program, no person, no coach, no administrator is immune to this to having this as a problem, you know, we learned this, you know, the very hard way personally, right, that our program had these same, you know, moral shortcomings and lack of fortitude to actually correct the problems in a reasonable time and people got hurt. And this is a totally different scenario, in terms of the specifics with hazing, and, and what you’re doing to incoming freshmen, or what you’re doing to people, players that are, you know, performing or not performing on the field. But outside of the specifics, in terms of the grit, you know, the the macro level, it’s the same problem, where it’s tolerated. And people look the other way, to the point that it’s enabled and becomes a part of your programs culture. And that is an issue. The cover up certainly is as bad as the crime in these cases, for sure. And I think, what you’re talking about with Northwestern as the institution, and they hire a third party firm to do an investigation, and then their decision is a two week suspension in July. For Pat Fitzgerald what that investigation found was enough plausible deniability that they thought they could get away with that, that even if someone were to read the report of the specifics of what was happening with these hazing incidents, and some of the abuse, that at least they could say, you know, the head coach was, should have known and should have put a stop to it and didn’t. So we punished him for that. And hopefully, this will change. But two week suspension in the middle of July, before campaign even started, makes me wonder whether this practice would have even changed, you know, I don’t even know, you know, if this if that were allowed to have been stayed in place, you know, if this didn’t get out, and become a bigger media story to the point that more serious action was taken, whether it was a longer suspension or with firing, Fitzgerald was the right thing. I think that’s, it’s correct, personally, but, you know, two weeks was definitely not enough. Right. So that is the part of it that still kind of eats at me is that the path that they chose, as an institution, I wonder if it would have even changed, you know, now with, you know, removal of the head coach, who seemed like, you know, one of the longest tenured, I think only Kirk ferentz, had a longer tenure at Iowa than Pat Fitzgerald, at Northwestern, right, this is a very serious step and to just been sent, I do have some confidence that there will be changes in that this won’t be you know, part of the program culture anymore, but that that’s the part still kind of will bother me continually is that was a two week suspension. Just another example of this being enabled and the same culture, the same culture Well, problems in this hazy may have changed shape slightly, but probably would have continued into the 2023 season. And that is, that’s the part of it that’s just makes me shake my head the most.
Phil Callihan 55:15
So to that again. So, it might have been different for me if it wasn’t somebody like Pat Fitzgerald, right? Who was the poster guy for Northwestern Football? Played their coach there. Right? So you question how long was this going on? And oh, we did an investigation. And what we found was so bad. We’re gonna give you a two week suspension. I mean, a two week vacation, right? Slash suspension. And that’s, that’s my, you know, sarcasm there. Right. But like you said, so this was going on. Okay. And let’s be clear. Something happened, okay. He knew about it. Either. He knew about it when he was coaching. Or he knew about it when he was playing, or he started it. I mean, again, let’s let’s, let’s step back here, right? This isn’t somebody, you know, this isn’t somebody who just got hired from had no history with the institution. Right. Okay. So what we found out was so bad, we’re going to do a two week suspension, which is a joke, right? And like you said, it may have continued going on. And then it was, well, what we found was so bad. We need to fire the head coach. Oh, yeah. And the position coaches, who you and I both know, spend the bulk of the time with the players, right. Who had to be aware of this? Or if they weren’t aware of it were morons, or looked, you know, took a blind eye to it? They’re fine. Right? I again, I just I, yeah. Northwestern just, you know, and I understand it’s the middle of the summer, and who you’re gonna get to coach and all that. And maybe, you know, in the offseason, they’re going to clean house again, I my guess is that’s probably going to happen, right? I can’t see this staff continuing to stay intact moving forward. But it’s just, again, we talked about the clown show, with the NCAA, Northwestern, you know, has their own clown show going on. And, unfortunately, it appears that, as you said, it became enough of the culture that people were definitely impacted, definitely hurt. And, again, this is Northwestern, right, supposed to be, you know, as clear as the driven snow. And, you know, again, you know, and, Clint, we’ve talked about this, you know, we’ve talked about, you know, the the bad situation at Penn State, the bad situation with at Michigan State with with things being overlooked, you know, the the Nasr situation. And again, things that happen at Michigan that were bad, okay, we’re not ignoring it. And, and I remember when, you know, those three things happened, I said, Well, you know, there’s no way it’s only the big 10. And I’m not saying it to give the big 10 of pass, I’m saying how prevalent is this? Okay, and how much? How much worse? Is it? How many bad things have are happening or have happened that we haven’t heard about? And that’s kind of what I feel about this is that I think, you know, Northwestern was more than ready just to, you know, give a minor slap on the hand and move on. And, again, not a good look.
Clint Derringer 58:48
Yeah, I agree.
Phil Callihan 58:49
So all right. Well, again, it’s nice to kind of clear the decks on this so we can start talking about Michigan Football. You know, the team is started camp, we’re going to have much better things and much more exciting things on the field to talk about soon. So Clint, do you have any final words for today?
Clint Derringer 59:13
Now it’s time to start putting together the game by game preview. I know, our big preseason extravaganza, typically in August is we kind of talked about each game on the schedule, what we think is going to happen, what we think from the whole season narrative, what it’s going to turn into, I think that’s going to be an exciting conversation, obviously, with the expectations we have for this season. And, you know, looking forward to starting to, you know, finish some of the work that was started here with kind of looking at the analytics, what the specific matchups are. You know, how things are going to play out with Harbaugh suspension early in the season and Michigan’s kind of soft nonconference schedule again. So yeah, it’s going to be It’s nice to start digging back into Football specific content and and more numbers and to be able to talk about that here in a few weeks. Absolutely. I’m so looking forward to talking about projecting the actual season we’ve, again, it’s great to have offseason, offseason things to talk about but really excited for this upcoming season.
