Phil and Clint discuss Michigan QB JJ McCarthy’s leadership, RBs Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards, the offensive and defensive lines, the Michigan Method, and Jim Harbaugh’s extraordinary ability to upset people.
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Podcast Transcript
Phil Callihan 0:00
We have a lot to go over today. Lots of interesting things from Michigan Football camp. First things up, expectations are high. And you know, Clint, it’s interesting, because when I go through the depth chart, we’re just stacked at every position. So really excited. We got to hear from JJ and he had a very interesting quote, talking about the expectations.
J.J. McCarthy 0:46
Me personally, I’ve been fortunate to be on a lot of really good teams, a lot of great teams my whole life. So it’s always been what going back to my high school coach said, like, don’t buy, don’t eat the cheese. I mean, all that is just expectations, don’t let the expectations blind you from the present moment and what we’re doing right now. So it’s just like, you know, focusing on the task at hand every single day, and then the only rankings are the only expectations are potential that matters, just the ones that are in January. So we just take it day by day.
Phil Callihan 1:17
Clint, it seems like that the team is specifically JJ as the leader of the team understands the danger of getting too excited and listening to the outside hype.
Clint Derringer 1:32
I mean, it’s, it’s another credit to the maturity of JJ as an individual, which I think that he is shown really exceptional maturity sense, even when he was still at school as a recruit, during the 2020 season that Michigan struggled, you know, keeping that recruiting class together, staying positive and optimistic and really embracing the challenge that it would be to turn the program around and be a recruiting class that could kind of stem the tide, at really Michigan’s lowest moment, at least last decade, or at least of the Harbaugh era. So, A through his whole career, he’s shown a, you know, remarkable maturity on an individual level. And I think this is another example of that. And I would say, one of the strongest things about the Michigan program right now, is that there are, you know, multiple leaders in that locker room that have the same kind of maturity, that you like to see it, JJ is a really exceptional example of that, but he’s not the only one. So I think it’s also a testament to the culture that, you know, that the coaching staff and and Jim Harbaugh have been able to put together. And it really found and recruited leaders, as players to kind of take over and take that message into the locker room and really exemplify it day in and day out. And the results on the field are really, you know, they’re a result of this positive culture and being able to withstand some of the temptation and distraction that’s out there. And Michigan as a program is like the most striking example of just craziness outside of the building and off of the field. And just so much going on so much drama, happening, external to the program. And once you zoom in on Football activity, and get within the locker room, it seems like they have this really zen like calm and ability to to just block all of that noise out and focus on the task at hand. And this quote is just one more example of kind of a window into that culture.
Phil Callihan 4:01
JJ has had a steady hand throughout his entire time from a recruit, where he helped bring and recruit players in to play with them here. And again, even as the program was disappointing when he came in, he mentioned there was that famous tweet,
J.J. McCarthy 4:21
I actually saw that tweet on Instagram the other day, and I was just like, I really said that, like, it’s crazy how it really panned out, but I just it was one of those gut feelings. It was like, you know, we the program was not in a place that anyone in this building anyone in the state wanted it to be at. So when you have that much momentum, it’s almost just like thinking about a bow and arrow like 2020 We were right here. And I was just feeling I just knew that that was gonna get let go at some point. So it was just great that it happened when it did and the timing of all that was pretty beautiful, but it’s still going that arrow still soaring through the air It’s reaching new heights.
Phil Callihan 5:01
He always had the skill, right? There was always JJ is just an amazing and electrifying player. But he had that maturity as a leader. And it’s interesting because, you know, I used to describe the way the players perceived both him and Cade is, Cade was the the older brother that everybody respected and but kind of feared, right? JJ was the guy they love. He was little brother who, who just was really enthusiastic. But he also was showing that leadership. And I think that what was interesting about him acknowledging, you know, the outside expectations is, you know, it’s being realistic. You know, you can’t pretend that there aren’t high expectations, you can’t completely ignore it. But you also got to focus on getting the job done. Right. And it’s interesting, because I can’t think of a time since I’ve been a Michigan Football fan, where there is higher expectations. And yet, I feel as confident heading into the season. It’s really weird. You know, I was, I was kind of alluding that when I look at, you know, at the starters, it’s, you know, you look at how experienced Michigan is, and how they kind of reloaded using the transfer portal. And, you know, I’m excited for the season, the players seem loose, they seem excited, and as you mentioned, lots of off the field drama. And yet, it just seems to bounce right off. Now. Of course, we know there’s going to be adversity, there always is. It’s one of the reasons we watch. But it is interesting to see that this team just seems to just keep pushing forward. And, you know, you’ve mentioned the culture, the culture seems to be strong.
Jim Harbaugh 7:03
We’ve got general managers come through, we’ve had scouts come through one, one in particular, who was in our meetings, at practices, he said, This is vibrant. So that’s my word, I can’t I can’t get that word on my head that just best describes the, the vibe, the mentality, that’s, it’s infectious, can’t help help not picking up on that. And that’s, that was well defined, it’s, it’s fiber, and they take that from the, they take them from the meeting rooms, to the weight rooms, to the, to the practice field to the stadium, it’s
Phil Callihan 7:49
You really have to, you know, admire where the program is right now. You know, I think they described it…
J.J. McCarthy 7:56
Just a train that kept on rolling ever since TCU. Be ran into a little bit of an obstacle, but that train kept moving. And all the guys that came in the young guys, the transfers, they hopped on, and they kept helping us push all the way from the start of this winter offseason. And it’s just been really awesome to build off of that. Because a lot of times, it’s like, you build everything up for the season, you get to a certain point, then you got to be good goes back down. You got to build it back up again, it doesn’t feel like we went back down. We just kept going.
Phil Callihan 8:27
JJ is definitely at the lead of that. You know, you know, and it’s interesting, because he talked about, well, you know, there are questions about so how are you going to change this year? How is the offensive mix going to be different, you know, the run versus the pass? And, you know, there were questions about well, you know, JJ, are you concerned? I mean, what happens if you get hurt, and, you know, he had a great quote,
J.J. McCarthy 8:53
God, given me this great ability to use my legs got to use them more. I
Phil Callihan 8:57
It’s interesting that on one hand, they talk about being more balanced. And of course, I mean, you’re gonna keep running the ball. I mean, that is a hallmark of Michigan Football under Jim Harbaugh, especially with, you know, Donovan Edwards, being fully healthy by his own report and Blake Corum being, you know, hopefully 100% I mean, just completely loaded on the run game. So, you know, what are your perceptions and what are your expectations for the offense heading into the season.
Clint Derringer 9:32
Right, bringing JJ back in year two, you would as a starter, right, a third year player, second year starter, you would expect a significant jump, right? There’s, it’s a common theme. A little bit of a cliche that is anchored in a lot of evidence that, you know, the second year, there’s a big jump in understanding right things kind of slow down. For players for coaches. You know, from Game one to Game Two from year one to year two, just that the biggest jump when the when the learning curve is still really steep. So I think that bodes well for Michigan, I think we can expect to see improvement from JJ. And there was there was certainly a lot of room for improvement as well as he played. And as much admiration as we have, for him as a player and a leader in terms of down to down and making plays making decisions. there’s still room for him to grow, for what he’s what he’s done last year, and there’s no reason that he can’t take that leap. And I think we’ll see that in, in the statistics, as well as the, you know, the downtown results. So that’s a positive thing. I think switching the offensive coordinator position, right with, with Matt Weiss moving on, and Sharon Moore taking over that responsibility. You’re now your your offensive line coach really is the heart of your offensive coordinator, decision making. We know it’s always some level of committee work on Jim Harbaugh staff. But to have your line coach really taking a step forward as an offensive coordinator, I think reinforces what you said that the the offensive strategy is still going to be built around the run game. It’s where the strength was of last year’s team and the returning on the offensive line. And both of your top two running backs, Blake Corum really being on, you know, an All American pace through, you know, until he was injured in that Illinois game. There’s no reason for it not to be right. So it’s Jim, Harbaugh’s stubbornness and his commitment to to making the run game kind of the core of his offensive philosophy really, has created this identity for Michigan, I only expect it to get stronger this year. So I am interested, though, to see, if just the ratio of runs two passes, does move a little bit closer to 5050. Right to 50%. Each. You know, when we look at the the metrics after the games, when I’m tracking the play by play data, we remove the Garbage Time, right so that when you’re running out the clock with a big lead, you know, those those snaps are removed from the analysis. So when when we’re when the game is still on the line, seeing how they’re going to call plays. And if it’s going to be closer to 5050 than in years past, I think is still something that we can learn. And I will be interested to see earlier in the season because there there’s going to be limited snaps, especially early in the season when the when the weaker opponents are on the count or on the schedule. Your starters are only going to be in there for so long. And you have to you have to try to distribute the ball to all of your playmakers and two of those playmakers are Running Back. So it’s going to be an interesting math problem for Sharon Moore to figure out how to distribute the ball to all of your playmakers including, you know, giving JJ McCarthy the ability to to attack defenses through the air while still getting the ball into the hands of you know your your best weapons, which are probably your two Running Back. So I would expect that we see a little bit more Donovan Edwards in the passing game, even more so than we’ve seen in the last couple years. That kind of takes care of both of those problems. At the same time using the passing attack to get the ball to Donovan Edwards is a big benefit, and can create major matchup problems for this offense. So I’m hoping that we see more of that. And then really, the creativity that comes off of just another another season of a really potent rushing attack and a strong offensive line. So I think 70 to 80% of the snaps are going to look very similar to what we’ve seen in the past in terms of dynamic run plays a lot of different blocking schemes, stuff that you and I like in the detailed look. But the most interesting details might be how they, how they go off of the run game and try to attack down the field through the air and how often they they’re able to do that.
Phil Callihan 14:39
Donovan specifically mentioned being more involved in the passing game and also mentioned that, you know, he feels he’s completely healthy. What I wonder is, as you said, you need to get everybody involved. You need to get everybody in a rhythm. You need to shake out, you know, the bugs from the offense especially on the offense. That’s right. And I wonder, so again, hoping that we see more balance or expecting to see more balance. What I’m wondering about when I watched JJ is, you know, he was a little bit of a gunslinger last year, right. And, and it was interesting, because, of course, you know, through those two pick sixes that were so devastating, versus TCU. And there were times in the year where he was, you know, again, pushing the ball a little bit, right, and always had enough talent to get away from it, get away with it and keep moving. So, you know, his maturity as a as a player, knowing that you are loaded in the running game, and perhaps dialing back a little bit of of the risk taking, right. You know, last season coach, Harbaugh definitely, you know, has a huge man crush on JJ and talking about how he was amazing, a generational player. But, you know, being a generational player, it’s also knowing when you need to do that, and when to rein it in. And it’s going to be interesting, I think to see. You know, even some of the players have mentioned, like, how is JJ elevated? Well, he’s, he’s more dedicated. He’s more discipline. So, you know, what, how are we going to see that in the field? And I think the struggle we’re going to have is, you know, you don’t expect the first four games to really be much of a challenge. And, again, how do you give, you know, again, if you have guys break, breaking off 60 and 70 yard runs? How do you exercise the offense fully? And, you know, I know that may sound a little pretentious at this point in the season. But with these running backs, you really do expect that you expect big plays, and how do you balance out, again, exercising the offense, going through the playbook, doing what you need to do. And again, just, we just, you know, it’s interesting, because the offense just seems so loaded at this point. And again, just amazing depth that Running Back. You know, Donovan even mentioned that, you know, there’s a chance more than a chance that they’re gonna see, we’re gonna see him and Blake both on the field together,
Donovan Edwards 17:35
I will hope so, you know, that’s the coach’s plan. I don’t want to say anything too specific. But hope so it’ll be you know, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t cover me and worry about Blake at the same time, you got to pick and choose, I pick the choose the match of what you want to lose it.
Phil Callihan 17:55
You know, they learn from each other…
Donovan Edwards 17:58
We both can do the same thing. But we also do it in a different way. I always like looking at it as he does things better than I do. And there’s some things that I may do better than he does. So it’s like we complement each other. You know, it’s like, we’re both very versatile. You know, we’re both very fast, very, both very elusive. And there’s things that, you know, like we both bring to the table that one another could do very well, you know, and that’s not to say that, you know, like, he can’t catch the ball, he catches the ball very well, that’s not to say that I can’t like work on making a second miss in the second level, because that’s my focus of this offseason. So it’s definitely things that we both bring to the table, bring to the table for each other, to make each other better. And we’re both working on that this offseason, going into the season.
Phil Callihan 18:44
And, again, there’s just a a swagger. Okay. And, you know, we mentioned this, you know, two years ago heading into the season, where players are talking about the work they put in the offseason, and the confidence they had coming in. And, you know, we’ve seen two incredibly solid, extraordinary seasons. But it just seems like it’s continuing to roll and that is the expectation now. But what what’s amazing to me is, okay, so two years straight of beating Ohio State, two years straight of winning the big 10 Championship, that’s the bar now. And this team is talking about how they elevate that to the next level. And it doesn’t seem boastful. It seems like it is a they realize the burden that they have. And, you know, it’s not a burden, as as Coach Harbaugh talked about it.
Jim Harbaugh 19:42
Yeah, I would say that it’s a mission, right. I mean, I mean, some people, some people go to their job and it’s a job. For us, it’s, it’s a mission and even coined the last year. It’s a happy mission. That’s, that’s the vibrant way it hit my brain. I think that’s what we’re on.
Phil Callihan 20:03
There’s there’s just a swagger and a confidence that you know, as a huge Michigan Football fan and as a Football fan in general, it’s, it’s amazing to see the the attitude, and the humble confidence that this team is exhibiting so far.
Clint Derringer 20:23
Yeah, and I think each of the last few seasons, you can see that, again, the positivity that permeates through the culture really allows you to, to find some a new challenge, right, while still embracing kind of kind of what it took to get there. So the 21 team, with Aiden Hutchinson, as a leader in the locker room, was tasked with kind of turning after the debacle of the 2020 season and the COVID year. So just kind of read, resetting, resetting the bar, getting everybody back hard and working together and holding each other accountable, kind of laying the foundation for some of those positive culture traits that we’re talking about. Now. That was the whole task. That was the whole thing in 2021. And then in 2022, the challenge is really to prove that 21 wasn’t a fluke, that it wasn’t just one generational team. It wasn’t one weather forecast in November against the buckeyes, right? It wasn’t, you were able to take and build on 21 and then go into Columbus and win that game for the first time in over two decades, right. So to again, build and take another step forward, right to not be satisfied with qualifying for the college Football playoff, and to be to be prepared to win the game. And then now from 22 to 23. I think this team still seems very hungry and agitated because of the poor performance in many ways that we saw in the college Football playoff against TCU that they fully expected to win that game and be to challenge for a national title last year. And they fell short of that. And we know that that had an effect mentally on the competitors that are on the team. You know, Blake Corum decided to come back, you know, when he easily could have draft you had, you know, two or three of your offensive linemen, that likely were mid round draft picks that came back and are playing for Michigan, right? They they came back specifically, right because of that kind of unfulfilled objective and that that happy mission that Harbaugh was talking about in the fall camp pressors really is just a continuation of December in January, and where they fell short. And they’re just continuing to build and keep keep that hunger out rest on their laurels. And I think that challenge, right? starts, season it starts in fall camp and of course, has a lot to do with the strength staff in the offseason. And again, I go back to really this being a function of the leadership traits that you’ve recruited in the players that are now juniors and seniors, and are leading the team. They they’re the ones that really set the objectives and set the bar for what the season has to look that look like and bout it, you know, one day at a time, one practice at a time and eventually one game at a time.
Phil Callihan 23:51
Well, you know, when we’re talking about expectations, right, I think back to 97. Okay, Michigan’s national championship here. And a lot of the narrative around that was, as you said, a generational team, a generational player in Charles Woodson and just lightning struck. And the next year expectations were high, and the team just came out and, you know, got their head knocked off. Right. And what we’re seeing now is the team just reloads right? Oh, as you said, oh, you know, Blake Corum might leave and and Donovan Edwards expressed how surprised he was then he’s like, Okay, you’re back. Let’s get to work, right?
Donovan Edwards 24:41
Oh, yeah, it was a surprise. Yeah, it was a surprise because you know, he was coming off with such a fantastic year. 1400 Almost 1500 carries going into was it the 11th in the 11 game so he could have been close to like 2000 you So I’m expecting him to go to the NFL. But, you know, he told me like two or three hours before he was coming back, kind of wait another year. But I’m very grateful for it, though, you know, because it gives me another opportunity, the way that I see it to like, learn, you know, to continue to grow to help us hope each other complement each other. And for him to come back to, I know that we’re going to be very successful, because we’re bringing back we’re bringing back the best Running Back during the country again, you know, so I’m very grateful, and I’m blessed that he’s coming back.
Phil Callihan 25:36
The players are coming back. Because not only do they have individual goals, but they culturally, they see the goal of the team unfinished, and they’re coming back to, to finish the mission. So it’s just interesting that it’s not, we better get out of here, before everything falls apart, it’s, Hey, I want to stick around because it’s going to stay good. And whatever opportunities there are for me in the pro ranks, well, they’ll be there. And, you know, we can’t ignore the impact of NIL that it makes it more palatable for these guys to stick around. And, and, you know, we both talked about how great that is. But, again, and I was great, and I’m sure they’re doing, you know, really well, but not as well as, as, you know, a first or second round NFL contract. So I think it’s important to emphasize the difference in culture, right? And that, there just seemed, and again, you know, I always say, you know, we get to see things. I always try to see things through a fans eyes, right. And I’m just impressed at how confident and how relaxed these guys are. There’s not a tension, there’s not a oh, what’s going to happen? It’s, I can’t wait. Right? Put in the work, do everything. And, you know, it’s interesting. During availability, Roman Wilson came out. And I have to say, like, I’ve always liked Roman, okay. But he has like a maturity this year. Like, just, you know, he’s like, Yeah, I’m ready to be JJ his go to guy, if that’s what he wants.
Roman Wilson 27:30
Being a more dependable, reliable receiver, I feel like I can step into that role of being JJ his go to guy, if that’s if that’s what he wants, you know, I’m ready for that. And I feel like, that’s what’s going to take me to the next level, if I come out there. I know, I’m the best receiver on the theater a lot of times, like, I don’t care who’s out there. I know what I can do. I know what I bring to this team, when they need me, like, I’m gonna show up, like, I’ve proven it. I’ve proven it to show up, CJ has proven it to like, show up with big time. So that’s just like, this is our mentality, like, we know where to best. You know, our team may not always need us, but when when it’s time, like we’re gonna be there and we’re gonna show out,
Phil Callihan 28:03
You know, here’s a guy who’s, you know, been injured in two straight seasons and been dinged up and he’s just, you know, he’s ready. He’s like, hey, it was bad luck. i It’s not anything I did wrong. And, you know, he’s expecting good things. And I just, you know, if I could just express to people the, the nature of this team, right, and, you know, they’re having fun
Roman Wilson 28:32
there’s a gentleman back there. Question
Donovan Edwards 28:37
What are you going to be a leader on this?
Roman Wilson 28:40
Sunday I want to do to be a leader. He walked away but so I want to do to be a leader as a stepping out of my comfort zone. Being a little more vocal. That’s not something I like to do. I don’t like being vocal. But you know, sometimes you guys say it’s you got to say even though if it’s uncomfortable, so so good question. Thank you. What up?
Donovan Edwards 28:58
What is it a bunch of game there’s some reason
Roman Wilson 29:01
I mean, if you’ve watched my game, you know, you put me in that category of like, I’m a fast guy. I’m not just a fast guy like I can I come out the backfield I can play wide out play slot, you know, I am fast, I can go up and get the ball and I can run off the couch, great hands. Who I am, I feel like I separate. I feel like everyone’s missing something. I feel like I’m just too much.
Phil Callihan 29:24
You see these guys gelling? And, of course, we don’t know what happens in the locker room. We don’t know what happens in practice. I’m sure tempers flare I’m sure not everybody is singing Kumbaya all the time. But when you when these guys describe what it’s like to play and to prepare, they they genuinely seem like they’re, they’re united in as Harbaugh said a happy mission. And, you know, we’re going to talk a little bit later about, you know, the, the endless drama off the field, but it really Lee doesn’t seem to bother them. It’s just, if anything, you know, I wonder, Clint, if the, again, the endless, seemingly drama, you know, with coaches leaving and, you know, NCAA interference, NCAA incompetence, if, if that almost is just helps them, you know, they just tune everything out, you know, and it’ll be interesting. You know, the players really don’t, you know, when they’ve been asked, they really don’t talk about it with any specificity. But it would be interesting after the season to kind of, you know, to follow that thread and that narrative and see if, if, how that really impacts things. And if at a certain point, you just tune everything out and, and had into practice?
Clint Derringer 30:50
Yeah, I think to that extent, you know, the head coach, especially, you know, hardball, but the whole staff, really, they have to deal with all of that external action, to try to let the players really zoom in and focus on and be laser focused on the task at hand. And it’s what they, you know, rants what they preach as a staff, clearly the players have bought in and they do that, and it’s a, you know, it’s a challenge to do that, mentally and psychologically, but it’s pretty clear that these particular players, at least for the last, you know, three years now have been able to do that. And it’s part of what, what you’re expected to do is block out all of the all of that ridiculous noise and to be able to focus on the task at hand. So it’s, it’s, I’m glad that we have players in those leadership positions that are capable of doing that, and that they’ve executed that because it is, I’m sure, it’s a very fine line. And it really, you know, we’re, we’re talking about it now in August, as if this season, you know, has gone according to expectations, but it hasn’t, right, we still have to get through a, you know, a schedule, that’s kind of a snoozer through the first month of the season. And, and, you know, there’s a lot can happen between now and then, to where, you know, some of these types of problems could still emerge. So as good as it is to hear in August, and it’s clear that they’re aware of the risk that comes with those types of challenges. That’s a great thing, but they still have to do it. And we still have to have, you know, 120 130, you know, 18 to 22 year old kids, you know, all pulling in the same direction with the challenges that are that this season is going to pose, you know, and you never know where that adversity is going to come from and when it’s going to come. But you’ve got to be prepared to to bounce back and answer that in full force when it happens. So I don’t want to oversell it, I am glad to hear it and to kind of feel it from the culture perspective in fall camp, but the you know, that’s still not doing it, you still have to go out there. You know, what, in September and October and indefinitely in November and be able to, to execute and continue to do it week after week. And that’s, you know, you still have to do that.
Phil Callihan 33:23
When Harbaugh began his tenure at Michigan, there was it seemed like he was experimenting a little bit. And he kind of fell back to this run heavy run first offense. And I remember the media just piling on Well, that’ll work in the early season, but you can’t do that when the games count. And what’s impressed upon me as I’m watching this team is not only are they doing it, but And yes, again, it’s offseason. Everybody’s happy in the offseason. You know, you always say a plan is great until he gets punched in the nose. Right? They haven’t been punched in the nose. There’s no adversity. And yet I can think back Clint to where there were teams where there was one back and that was it. Right you knew who the back was going to be and everybody else kind of you know retreated to the side. Well, here you have two amazing backs. And there doesn’t seem to be any jealousy if anything, you know, downwind was talking about trying to pick up some corals moves.
Donovan Edwards 34:35
Really liked that Blake Corum shuffle…you know how big the making people missing the open field? That’s really well I’m trying like trying to add to my bed making the safety missing from make the safety message should be a touchdown every single time.
Phil Callihan 34:50
The way that this offense has calibrated itself to really impose its well, we are going to run and you know, here we are. Well, we’re hoping there’s more balance. But, you know, I keep thinking if things go wrong, well, they’re just going to run the ball. And they’re going to, you know, and Coach Harbaugh talked about
Jim Harbaugh 35:10
I read that another team was, was doing that for their quarterbacks. Michigan methods, I liked it. I liked the way that sounded. So that’s some Michigan method. The who, who plays who plays who gets to start the best players? How do you know the best player is they play the best? So define what the Michigan method is? That that would that would that would define it well.
Phil Callihan 35:37
And we saw this last year where you had two starting quarterbacks and the way we were going to decide who is the best was, you know, roll the ball out, and let’s see how they do. Right. And there’s so there’s so much depth on the offensive line, that Harbaugh says, I have four tackles. I have four guards. I have two centers, we’ll see how this goes. And to have that kind of depth, not only on the on the offensive line, but at Running Back. And listen, I hope Blake is completely healthy. Okay. I hope Donovan’s completely healthy. And yet, when they both got dinged up last year, it was next man up. And and part of that is the system. Part of that is okay, we you know, yes, they’re both incredible backs. But we have a system here that is going to put the Running Back in a position to do a lot of different things. And a great back will be able to do more. And I just think back. And again, I keep thinking back to 234 years ago, as this transition was happening and all the pundits saying it’s not going to happen. This isn’t how you do it. Right. And, you know, I was thinking back to the Don Brown defense, right? of, well, we’re just gonna blitz like crazy, right? And it’s more sophisticated than it is. And I remember thinking, No, it’s not, right. No, it’s not. And eventually it kind of it hit its ceiling, right? Well, in a lot of ways, if you flip it, that’s where we are on the offense but hardball showed you can do it. Like people kept saying, well, there’s a ceiling to running the ball first or being so run heavy. And he’s just built this team from the ground up. And it is imposing its well. And it’s, it’s it’s amazing to see and, and again, I keep coming back to when you talk to these players involved in the Michigan method. Okay. Now, granted, I don’t think Cade was super happy last year. And understandably so no competitor is going to be happy splitting jobs, when they think they’ve won it, or they think that they were successful in the past. But for the team, that’s, that’s one of the ways you, you know, you know, they always like to say iron sharpens iron, right? Well, you have these guys who are competing, and they’re not, there’s like on the offensive line, it’s not obvious who’s gonna win. Okay. That’s how good the talent is. And that’s how high the expectation is, for the positions. And and again, it’s just, I take a step back from where we were three or four years ago. And the expectation now and again, yes, they need to do it on the field, because that’s where it counts. But, you know, Clint, if you were to look at this team, what would you say the weakness is heading into the heading of the season? What are your concerns?
Clint Derringer 38:34
Well, I think I definitely feel the same way you do about depth on the offensive side of the ball. But I think if if we’re going to praise it on that side of the ball, then it’s a concern on the defensive side of the ball. Where last year upfront on the defensive line, your best player Mike Morris, your second best player mozzie Smith both gone into the NFL draft with guys again there there are people there, they’re they’re experienced, younger guys ready to step into those positions for sure. I’m very excited to see what Mason Graham’s gonna be able to do. You know, I want to I don’t want to say that it’s Dire Straits by any by any means, however, the depth and the the embarrassment of riches the defensive side, I’m not so sure that we have it on the defensive side. And we’ve seen that in the last couple years. Poke its head up. If you think to two years ago, I remember a home game against Rutgers that Josh Ross got dinged up middle linebacker on the defense and then all of a sudden, Michigan was unable really to stop kind of an inverted year look from from records with a running Quarterback. So I do I do worry a little bit about the second corner position, you know the cornerback on the opposite side. Um, we’ll Johnson right, I think we have high expectations for Willie Johnson, he kind of grew and matured into a starter by the end of season as a true freshman. But when you just look at it on paper, you lost both of your your day one starting cornerbacks from last year’s team. So I would question whether we have the same kind of layers and layers and layers of depth, like, you know, like rows of teeth and a shark, that we would like to think it is, I’m not so sure that we have that on defense, at least we don’t know, for sure that we have that on defense. So again, I have very high expectations for what the defense is going to do. I’m not, you know, sounding an alarm at all. But if I were to pick one main concern, from the umbrella of the entire season, I would worry a little bit about defensive depth, linebacker, defensive line. And in the secondary, that if you get one or two, certainly two injuries at a key position, where all of a sudden, I think, would be noticing a drop off inexperience and maybe even in talent. So that would be probably number one. Haven’t kind of put together my preview article. This week, you know, kind of looking at it game by game and how it shapes up on the on the calendar. And I was really struck recently, like it didn’t notice this when the schedule came out until I started looking at it this week. Michigan plays five road games this year for the season, right there seven home regular season games and five road games. But those five road games happen in the span of seven games from the fifth game to the 11th game. Michigan has five row games in two home games, with a bye week next in there, and there’s a stretch here in October, that Michigan plays three out of the four weeks on the road. And again, that type of challenge. It’s not X’s and O’s. It’s not, you know, lifting weights, it’s not execution on the field. It’s really a mental and an emotional challenge with the added stress and the added logistic logistics and timing of playing on the road. You know, it’s in addition to kind of being in a in a hostile atmosphere. So those two things together are where I would say, I need to see with my own eyes first. What kind of depth we’re talking about all three levels of the defense, you know, who’s taking a jump forward, right? I’m thinking of Braden McGregor becoming a real threat on the edge, he’s got to take a jump forward for this defense to be as good as they can be. I think the safeties young guys like Keon sab, older guys like McCarthy page, these are guys that have to take big steps forward on that defense, and, and show that we’ve got that same kind of depth that we’re bragging about on the offensive side. And then the mental challenge of playing so many road games through the middle of the season, from the fifth game to the 11th game, showing that you can really go into some hostile environments and still win, including, you know, rivalry game in East Lansing, and then really a challenging environment at Penn State two weeks at or three weeks after we play the Spartans. So those are the big things right now. From where I sit in August, if, if, if we’re focusing on what needs to get answered, in order for Michigan to achieve what they want to achieve, which is big 10 title and national title hopes, then that’s where I would be focusing if I was in if I was in that locker room.
Phil Callihan 43:52
So you mentioned Braiden McGregor, he had a, you know, he had a great quote,
Braiden McGregor 43:56
I mean, the no star defense is a great way to put it. Just looking around, you see all these guys and everybody can make plays, you know, our defense is built on so much trust. We have so much trust from you know, the D line to linebackers to the DVDs. I mean, you look around, you’re you know, when you’re out there and say I got some like a jazz piano player and I’m like, look behind him, I Okay, I know, Mike is gonna come fill this gap. And I’m not even worried about making the play. I’m just got to do my job and the play is going to be made. So having that no star defense mentality is good for all of us. I mean, it built so much trust with us. And, you know, it’s up to the leadership. Everybody can be a leader. It doesn’t have to be the, you know, the one starting guy, so it’s definitely helped this year.
Phil Callihan 44:41
And I agree with you. I really like the analogy of the shark’s teeth. Right. I do feel like that on the offensive line. I you know, I’m not so sure about the offensive line. I’ll tell you my big concern. Heading in is the kicking game. kickoffs punts. field goals. We’ve been incredibly fortunate the last several seasons. And as great as the team was last year, came down to a kick, right against Illinois. And it was really automatic. It was I mean, and again, I, you don’t want to take anybody for credit. But you know, money moody, right? It was, you know, and you know, the other positions, get the sizzle, right, Quarterback receiver, kick returner, big plays, right. But field position is incredibly impactful. And we have been, it has been automatic for the last two or three seasons. And it’s interesting, because, you know, we may know who is going to fill that position. But we really have no idea how steady that is going to be. And, you know, there have been situations in the past where you would have a player be really good beginning of their career or beginning of the season. And again, you know, the kicking game is, is there’s a huge mental aspect to it. And I am not sure, as as much as Moody was popular last year, and Brad Robins was, you know, again, they were the they were the dynamic duo. I’m not sure that casual Football fans appreciate how incredibly consistent they were. And that is my number one concern, you know, punching and kicking. And just it, you know, as much as just being a fan, something can keep me awake at night, because I obviously have no control over it. But that is my concern. That I mean, we saw what happened to Ohio State last year, right? Ohio State could have bailed out their season. And you know, missed that field goal. And it’s just one of those things where you, you don’t think about it until it happens. And then when it happens, it’s really bad. It’s really bad. And to think about how automatic field position has been and how automatic you know, field goals have been? It is it is the thing is the number one thing that concerns me, and I’m sure when we get into our preseason preview, you know, that was one of the things I was really going to beat the drum on is, man, I’m going to be watching that. And again, the first three or four games, right, it shouldn’t matter. But you know, we’ll definitely be paying attention, I think it’s going to be it’s going to be who’ve Michigan special teams to be extraordinary to really pick up right out of the gate, and be able to contain the return games. And again, it’s going to be on the offense to not put team in the position where they really need feel gold and and again, got to play it on the field, looking at the roster shouldn’t be a concern. But man, it’s it worries me as the season heads on. So that’s one of the things that that I’m really concerned about something that, you know, I wasn’t that concerned about heading in. And, you know, as we talked about things, that’s one of the things that that I just I cringed a little bit,
Clint Derringer 48:28
You’re replacing maybe the best kicker in Graham’s history, right? I mean, by making objective measurements, right, it’s really hard to come up with a better answer than Jake moody is the best kicker in the program’s history. So just from a from a statistic and probability standpoint, you have to assume there’s going to be some regression to the mean, you know, as good as our next kicker may or may not be, it’s going to be really hard to be as good as moody has been. So we’re going to feel that difference in most probability. And I think Brad Robins was very, very consistent. And so we’ll see how that how that plays out. But there’s, we’ll talk more about some of the field position metrics to the point that maybe there might be some room to grow and even improve there. So we’ll be specific and try to set some what we think are the key indicators of whether, you know, when comparing to last year’s team, where can they do better? Where do they need to try to kind of hold serve and stay as good? And it’s, it’s interesting to kind of keep an eye on that from week to week.
Phil Callihan 49:43
You know, and again, you just look back to you know, remember Michigan, Michigan State. You know, several seasons ago, Michigan had the game in hand and you had a special teams failure. We have the thing thing about both moody and robins is they were just consistent that were not screw ups. Okay. And, you know, it’s funny, you know. And again, I look at the game, you know a little differently. It’s like Offense, Defense special teams, okay? When you’re really good on offense and defense, you can be okay on special teams. Michigan was great on special teams. And again, we can talk about how great the punting game was, but there weren’t any big mistakes, right? And when you’re when you’re, when you’re over matching, okay, other teams, the way they can get back is to be chance, special teams and Michigan really contain that. So that’s, you know, and it’s not just, you know, we’ve kind of been banging on the kicking game, but, but it’s also, you know, coverage, it’s also all those things that you know, a momentary lapse of focus, and you give a big play to the other team. So, those are the things that I’m really going to focus on and, and speaking of, of special teams, coach, Harbaugh had had a little nugget for us.
Jim Harbaugh 51:11
Also a secret plan for Alex Orji. He might be he got a chance to be maybe one of the greatest kick returners of all time. Big 235 pound guy, so he just started, he just started doing it, we’ll see how it goes. He’s also excelling at Quarterback. So there’ll be some decisions that have to be made. I we have to we have to improve in our in our kickoff return blocking, before I would agree to have Alex orgy returning the kick. So there’s a there’s a bit of a challenge there going on. It’s it’s made for quite a bit of excitement and enthusiasm that our kickoff return blockers have seen what Alex can do as a kick returner, but the challenge is on them to, to get better get better at their fundamentals and their techniques and, and, you know, give him a chance to because if he if he can if we can make it happen, it would be it’d be really special. But I mean, club amalinks is very similar in that it would be similar in that role. But yeah, there’s some there’s some excitement there.
Phil Callihan 52:23
You never know how much Coach Harbaugh was playing mental games. I definitely believe that Alex Orji I think they’re trying to find a way to get him on the field. Right. Really good athlete really interesting potential. But, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen conjecture where, you know, there’s some drama at The Ohio State Quarterback position. So Harbaugh makes a comment about we got so many quarterbacks, we’re putting them on kickoff return, and you just kind of kind of wonder either way, but you know, it is interesting that, you know, I think last year, we really wondered where we were going to be with kick returns, with, you know, with with players coming back from injuries, and it seems like it’s kind of a of a wide open position this year. You know, you mentioned potentially Roman wealth and and again, perhaps Alex orgy, but, you know, the same way that, you know, I’m going to be looking to see how Michigan does, you know, in the kicking aspect, I would really love to see us find some lights out returner who can really, you know, exploit other lapses by the other team. Right. So that would be great to see that would be something that I’d love to see added to the mix. But again, it’s one of the things Coach Harbaugh had for us. And always entertaining as always. And, you know, it’s interesting, because, you know, you look at it, and we talked about kind of the drama happening off field, and that definitely involves Coach Harbaugh. For those following along at home. Initially, the word was he was going to be, he was going to set out the first four games. And the word was expected any minute that that was going to be official. And then it’s come out that the NCAA infractions committee has rejected that proposed settlement. So the good news is that Jim Harbaugh will be on the sideline for this season. And, you know, they asked him about it.
Question 54:42
Can you speak to any of the NCAA situation now that it appears that they did make a comment on Twitter, can you can you respond to that or where the NCAA situation stands?
Jim Harbaugh 54:52
No, no, I can’t come out.
Phil Callihan 54:55
He didn’t have a lot to say which is probably good. The bad news is, is that the punishment will be looming. Okay? And, you know, we both talked about how little we think of the NCAA enforcement of things. And no, it just seems that we’re in for another offseason of drama. If they’re not going to accept this penalty, it may be add to the narrative of reasons for Jim Harbaugh to leave in the offseason. And, you know, there’s all kinds of stories going around, Clint, of you know, why the infractions committee, it may go back to somebody who has who has long had a grudge against Coach Harbaugh, and may actually been involved in why he may have impacted the job search for the Minnesota Vikings. So, again, just tons of off field drama. And and I have to wonder, you know, it’s amazing, I wonder if the players is tuned it out? Because it is so consistent.
Clint Derringer 56:05
Yeah, I mean, you have to, there’s nothing that they can do other than be distracted. So you have to tune it out. I have to think that’s the strategy. The, again, the revisiting the NCAA and the committee on infractions. And all of this, they seem pretty hell bent on trying to make sure that they make more of an example of Michigan than would have been made by a four game suspension for games only where he was coaching at practice through the week. I agree. That’s, that’s, that’s a slap on the wrist of of any type, regardless of what the infraction is. So the problem, at least for me, is that this is now going to be four years removed, likely, right? As we go into the offseason and 2024, this is going to be four years removed from the minor level two infractions that are at the root of the entire problem. And then that investigation, where now we’re into a battle of semantics, and you know, defending your honor, certainly from Harbaugh’s perspective, about whether he lied or was forthcoming, or, you know, cooperated fully with the investigation. So this has now boiled down to, you know, a clash of personalities between Harbaugh and how he handled himself during this, you know, minor infractions investigation, and the the committee on infractions, and how they feel slighted with how he dealt with them. And it’s, it’s now it’s now it’s a measuring contest to see, you know, who can who can be the most petty. So none of this has any real impact on the 2023 season, I really hope that it’s easier for the players and the program to kind of compartmentalize and set this to the side. And again, we’ll be talking about it, I’m sure, in January, when it all comes back up. But all of your points are valid in terms of the offseason drama, I think we’ve, we’ve pretty much accepted you and I that offseasons in the horrible era are going to be, you know, pretty full of drama of different types, depending on what’s going on and, and, you know, some level of stress for those of us who want him to remain the coach, you know, but, you know, I think you know, that you take the good with the bad to some extent. And, you know, this particular level of drama, is again, I I wish that there were never any problems from 2020. Right. But again, the people that were involved, many of them have moved on already, to other programs. This is something that was based on, all based in, you know, how the program handled themselves during the COVID season, which was a total debacle of a season. Anyway, so turning, you know, so to speak, a one day story into a four year story is the part of it right now that that makes me shake my head the most. And again, for the NCAA to be acting in such such a small and petty manner, at least from from what I can see. It’s just frustrating. And it’s clear to me that they’re trying to make an example of some major program that they can get their hands on, and we’ll see how it shakes out. I don’t I think that if they had if they had the ability to come down on hardball really, really hard. They would have done Never already. So to me, this seems like even more posturing. And that’s why it’s even more frustrating to me.
Phil Callihan 1:00:06
The NCAA has apparently even broken their own rules while investigating Jim Harbaugh. So, you know, they’re not supposed to talk about an ongoing investigation. And here’s what they said. The Michigan infractions case is related to impermissible on and off campus recruiting during the COVID 19 dead period, and impermissible coaching activities, not a cheeseburger. So, you know, there you go. You know, it’s it’s interesting that, you know, there’s the Snark you know, it’s funny, because Jim Harbaugh gets dinged on, you know, kind of being a little bit of smart aleck and thumbing his nose at authority on occasion, and then you kind of get, you know, snark coming back. So again, you know, it’s having followed Jim Harbaugh for practically all of his career, right. The list of people he’s pissed off is long and distinguished, right. I mean, from from Bo Schembechler, right. I mean, there’s a story about Jim sitting in his chair when he was a young kid when his dad was, was on the coaching staff, right. And Bo, tell him to get out of his chair right, to talking about you know, his Ohio State guarantee. He’s pissed off, Mike Ditka. When he was in the NFL, he’s upset various players that he’s played against. He’s upset other coaches. He’s upset. I mean, again, the list is long. Okay. It’s super power seems to be upsetting people. And, you know, the NCAA, we’ll just need to take a number and get in line because, you know, I don’t think Jim is going to stop To be continued. In the offseason, Coach Harbaugh has definitely talked about, you know, that it hasn’t hurt the team focus at all.
Jim Harbaugh 1:02:04
You know, that’s it’s the beauty of my dad’s mantra. Attack each day, with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. It just frames it right there. Attack each day, attack this day, with a through z as a man, unknown to mankind, and living living by it daily. And it’s been good. It’s worked. We’re chasing perfection.
Phil Callihan 1:02:35
Hopefully we won’t have to talk about this particular NCAA issue until the offseason.
Clint Derringer 1:02:42
Yeah, I agreed. Let’s Let’s just hope that it stays out of the 23 season, if at all possible, and we’ll we’ll dig back into it when we’re in the downtime and looking for things to talk about related to Michigan Football, then we can embrace it and really dig into the details.
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