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WEEK 2: Cincinnati @ Michigan (#11) GAMEDAY THREAD

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  • uneek1 said:
    zjgm02 said:
    The problem with your logic is Speight is getting worse, not better.

    Again, if Cincy was any good Michigan probably loses that game on Saturday.  They put together ONE DECENT DRIVE and had the game within a field goal.  If Speight plays like that against an adequate B1G team they will likely lose, so rather than throw up your hands when Speight eventually does cost them another game, you do something while you still have the chance. It's one thing if a QB throws the odd pick, but he's making really elementary mental mistakes on exchanges.

    Dude its the second game of the season R-E-L-A-X. Your QB even as a senior is not going to be flawless in week two. He is not getting worse if anything its taking time for new WR's and TE's to gel or did you forget that? The formula right now is more than enough for them to beat even the better B10 teams. Because they have to play against UM's defense and Speight does not. By the time Speight gets to mid Oct and he is playing poorly then lets have a chat but in week two your expecting too much too soon.
    No one is saying he has to be flawless but he has to be better than he was last year and he's not. He has to be the leader of this offense and this team and he's not showing it. This is his fourth year on campus and third year in this program so I expect a lot more out of him. Harbaugh has even acknowledged that himself publicly and if he is the QB whisper, like you say, then Speight obviously has things to work on and needs to get better.

    Go Blue!!
  • From Todd McShay:

    Michigan QB Wilton Speight's inconsistency

    Speight has the talent, but he has been way too inconsistent this year. He threw two pick-sixes in Week 1 against Florida and missed high on a lot of throws versus Cincinnati on Saturday. I was expecting to see improvement from Speight in Year 2, but I haven't seen it yet. Hopefully he settles in soon, because if not I wonder how long it will be before Jim Harbaugh takes a look at John O'Korn as the starter.


    Go Blue!!
  • I also thought that Crawford was too close and therefore did not time the handoff really well.
  • uneek1 said:
    zjgm02 said:
    The problem with your logic is Speight is getting worse, not better.

    Again, if Cincy was any good Michigan probably loses that game on Saturday.  They put together ONE DECENT DRIVE and had the game within a field goal.  If Speight plays like that against an adequate B1G team they will likely lose, so rather than throw up your hands when Speight eventually does cost them another game, you do something while you still have the chance. It's one thing if a QB throws the odd pick, but he's making really elementary mental mistakes on exchanges.

    Dude its the second game of the season R-E-L-A-X. Your QB even as a senior is not going to be flawless in week two. He is not getting worse if anything its taking time for new WR's and TE's to gel or did you forget that? The formula right now is more than enough for them to beat even the better B10 teams. Because they have to play against UM's defense and Speight does not. By the time Speight gets to mid Oct and he is playing poorly then lets have a chat but in week two your expecting too much too soon.
    No one is saying he has to be flawless but he has to be better than he was last year and he's not. He has to be the leader of this offense and this team and he's not showing it. This is his fourth year on campus and third year in this program so I expect a lot more out of him. Harbaugh has even acknowledged that himself publicly and if he is the QB whisper, like you say, then Speight obviously has things to work on and needs to get better.

    Go Blue!!

    But what are your expectations after week 2? UM is 2-0 and won both games by close to 20 pts and against power 5 conf schools one being a ranked SEC team. Of course JH knows he can be way better but also knows he has time. And he sure as hell isn't pulling for a freshman or O'Korn him unless he just doo-doo's the bed over sevral games. JH also knows that his WR and TE's are all brand new so offensive timing isn't great. That's isn't all on the QB. Now I do agree the simple throws you have to make by now. And a good deep ball without PA wouldn't hurt either in the event UM had to spread the field. Right now my issue with him that I don't think he is sharp enough to bring UM back if they are down and that's going to happen at some point this season. You guys had these same issues with Ruddock and he turned out fine. I'm banking on the same with Speight

  • “What it comes down to is, when there's something going on in my face – when I avoid the pressure – I've got to keep my base,” Speight said after the game. "Coach Pep (Hamilton) is big on keeping my base. Staying loaded. And sometimes when I move around in the pocket, I get a little sloppy with my feet and it causes the ball to sail or go a little low."

    This quote from Speight bothers me.

    Should Speight be making these errors during his 14th start? Once in a while, sure. No one’s perfect. But we’ve seen too much of this over the first two weeks and games past. Dropping handoffs and fumbling on the goal line is inexcusable.

    He’s not stepping into throws, so the ball comes out late and way too high. While this is only the second game of the year, I have questions about his consistency and I'm know JH and Hamilton do too.

    Go Blue!!

  • uneek1 said:
    But what are your expectations after week 2? UM is 2-0 and won both games by close to 20 pts and against power 5 conf schools one being a ranked SEC team. 
    Speight lost his last three starts last season and made significantly more errors in those games than his 9 previous starts.  That's why anyone paying attention should be concerned.  This season isn't a vacuum, but if it were Speight should be playing better with another spring and summer in the system, but he's making the same errors. 

    Cincinnati is not in a power 5 conference, and even if they were they stink so that point would be irrelevant.
  • Speight is who he is.  I don't expect him to ever become a gunslinger.  He just needs a little polishing and Michigan will need to do what this team was designed for: run the ball effectively and play great defense.
    Since many seem to bring back the three loses from last year, by a combined 5 points.  The difference in those games was Michigan's inability to run the ball when it needed to do so.  Speight was Speight. 

    Through 2 games this year, Speight hasn't been great.  He can definitely be better, but it's clear that he's the QB for the remainder of this season, barring some catastrophe. 

    People commented in fall camp that the offense was well behind the defense.  
    We're seeing that clearly on display.

    I don't put all the blame on offense at Speight's feet.  Too many new guys cutting their teeth.
    They have some interesting games ahead (AF, Purdue, Sparty, and IU) that will only help this team learn and get better, or simply put, they won't.

    Go Blue!


  • Gr8Mckay said:
    Speight is who he is.  I don't expect him to ever become a gunslinger.  He just needs a little polishing and Michigan will need to do what this team was designed for: run the ball effectively and play great defense.
    Since many seem to bring back the three loses from last year, by a combined 5 points.  The difference in those games was Michigan's inability to run the ball when it needed to do so.  Speight was Speight.
    Yeah, that's me.  And I do so because Speight threw more than half of his total number of INT for the season in just those three loses, while also managing to lose a fumble on tOSU's 2 yardline, so his poor play definitely had a lot to do with losing those games.  I heard the excuses of him being injured for those games, but he's had spring and summer to recuperate and he's making exactly the same errors while presumably healthy, so that doesn't hold water. 

    His play the last five games is considerably worse than it was during his first nine starts.  He should be getting better, not worse, and that isn't happening.

  • So the question should be, is Speight the QB we saw in the first half of last year or is he the QB we have seen in the last 5 games?

    Go Blue!!
  • Last 5. 4 were in big time games, and he's played poorly in the clutch. Cincy beats us if they were a team with a pulse
  • Did you see Harbaugh at his press conference today? He literally rolled his eyes when asked about the QB. 

    That told me all I need to know. Speight is the QB. Period. End of story. No O'Korn. No Peters. It's Speight this year. 
  • zjgm02 said:
    Gr8Mckay said:
    Speight is who he is.  I don't expect him to ever become a gunslinger.  He just needs a little polishing and Michigan will need to do what this team was designed for: run the ball effectively and play great defense.
    Since many seem to bring back the three loses from last year, by a combined 5 points.  The difference in those games was Michigan's inability to run the ball when it needed to do so.  Speight was Speight.
    Yeah, that's me.  And I do so because Speight threw more than half of his total number of INT for the season in just those three loses, while also managing to lose a fumble on tOSU's 2 yardline, so his poor play definitely had a lot to do with losing those games.  I heard the excuses of him being injured for those games, but he's had spring and summer to recuperate and he's making exactly the same errors while presumably healthy, so that doesn't hold water. 

    His play the last five games is considerably worse than it was during his first nine starts.  He should be getting better, not worse, and that isn't happening.

    It still bugs me, but the one pick at Iowa should have been a catch by Chesson.  

    Did he have mistakes in those games, yes.  But he also made some great throws in all three games that should not be discounted.

    I just think he is who we've all seen from the Minnesota game in '15, all of last year, and thus far this year.  
    I'm hopeful he'll minimize mistakes moving forward, but he's not going to turn into something he isn't. 


  • So the question should be, is Speight the QB we saw in the first half of last year or is he the QB we have seen in the last 5 games?

    Go Blue!!

    Right now he is somewhere in between. He has the talent to be good but he needs to mature in decision making a little better. Also mechanics aren't that great either. Lets see how the O does the next two weeks. JH is going to get him rightplus the O still has to work out the kinks. Hopefully 2 TD's and accurate passing should be the fix.
  • Instead of seeing what Speight could do in the next two weeks when we all probably know what he's capable of, why not take the other approach and get Peters reps for the next two weeks and see what he can do?

    Go Blue!!
  • Instead of seeing what Speight could do in the next two weeks when we all probably know what he's capable of, why not take the other approach and get Peters reps for the next two weeks and see what he can do?

    Go Blue!!
    Agree, but that ship has sailed IMO.  For better or worse, Speight is the ride-or-die QB unless the wheels completely fall off or he gets injured.  I find it hard to believe the guys on the bench are worse, though.  Perhaps Speight is much better in practice, but it isn't translating to games.  Peters looked better than Speight in the spring game and has all the tools to be better, but apparently he doesn't (yet) have what Harbaugh is looking for.

    It seems like Speight understands defensive formations and is confident in making changes at the line, which is invaluable, but he has trouble hitting open receivers and holding onto the ball as well, so who the hell knows.
  • Instead of seeing what Speight could do in the next two weeks when we all probably know what he's capable of, why not take the other approach and get Peters reps for the next two weeks and see what he can do?

    Go Blue!!


    I really don't see the point in that unless JH saw something that made him think he was going to push Speight competition wise. I think what your saying is if the O was clicking then the score could be at the point where you are seeing these guys in action. 

    But I just think you keep forgetting the talent around him is new as well. If he has Butt, Chesson etc.. then there would be more to your point. Unfortunately as most fans root for the back up since you don't like the back up your stuck.

    Look on the Brightside at least they have that position solidified (talent wise) for a few years. Even if peters starts next year he will have an experienced WR core and 3 years to start.

  • zjgm02 said:
    Instead of seeing what Speight could do in the next two weeks when we all probably know what he's capable of, why not take the other approach and get Peters reps for the next two weeks and see what he can do?

    Go Blhe

    It seems like Speight understands defensive formations and is confident in making changes at the line, which is invaluable, but he has trouble hitting open receivers and holding onto the ball as well, so who the hell knows.
    This right here. Speight has the mental aspect of QB down. But it just seems like he can't physically get it done. 
  • Instead of seeing what Speight could do in the next two weeks when we all probably know what he's capable of, why not take the other approach and get Peters reps for the next two weeks and see what he can do?

    Go Blue!!

    I just don't see this as being a good idea.  Speight can also use these next few games to continue to develop his chemistry with his new receivers which I feel is part of his early season struggles.  Also, from a mental standpoint, I feel like benching Speight could just wreck his confidence.
  • Asked if he felt Speight might be going through some hiccups because of the presence of a new quarterbacks coach in Pep Hamilton, Miller said he did not. Hamilton’s been at U-M for roughly nine months now and, in Miller’s experience as a player and a coach, that’s more than enough time for a bond to be built.
    Hamilton’s added his personality to the offense, but as Miller notes, the heartbeat of what Michigan’s trying to do – with it’s power schemes, heavy sets and route concepts – is still based around Harbaugh’s core offense. Which isn’t new to Speight.

    Yes, there are new receiving targets. However, that has nothing to do with his footwork and completely overthrowing or under throwing or missing targets down the field.

    Go Blue!!
  • From Scottsdale post:

    There’s a reason why (the backups) didn’t come in the game last week. There was plenty of opportunity if the coaches wanted to do that,” he said. “My bet is Wilton shows flashes where he’s undeniably the best guy for the job (right now) and he has enough separation from the guys behind him. … But also, he’s a leader on that team. And they’re letting him work out kinks right now.

    Exactly my point. They know he is off but the only way to work that out is thru playing. Get a big lead and you may see the other guys but Speight is the guy!



  • Yes, there are new receiving targets. However, that has nothing to do with his footwork and completely overthrowing or under throwing or missing targets down the field.

    Go Blue!!
    Yes, but sitting Speight isn't going to help him with his mechanics that need work.  If there is still a chance that he can work out his problems he's having with his footwork, which is a big factor in why he's off target on his throws, the only way to work through that is to play.

    What would be nice would be to see this team actually blow someone out so that we could get a chance to see Peters come off the bench.

  • Phil talked about it in the "biggest surprises" thread that his biggest surprise is that a Harbaugh recruit isn't the starting QB yet. Getting HRbaugh so late in 2014 really hurt the program from a QB stance. He had no time to get a QB in that class (Gentry having moved to TE). 

    im also missing the days when we had a difference maker at QB. Say what you want about Henne, Navarre, or Greasie they could put the ball where it was needed and were very good on the deep throw. 

    Watching Baker Mayfield absolutely direct Ohio State really hit hard as to how far we have yet to go in regards to QB play here. 
  • Baker Mayfield was a 3* recruit and was actually barely cracking the top 50 QB's in his class. He was actually a walk on at Texas Tech before transferring to OU so he wasn't some highly recruited phenom coming out of high school.  
  • Speight has been in the system for three years.

    O'Korn has been a system for three years.

    Peters has been in the system for two years.

    There are no excuses for poor QB play with so many young QBs across the country playing and playing successfully.

    Go Blue!!
  • MGoBrew said:
    Baker Mayfield was a 3* recruit and was actually barely cracking the top 50 QB's in his class. He was actually a walk on at Texas Tech before transferring to OU so he wasn't some highly recruited phenom coming out of high school.  
    I don't care if he was a 1 star recruit he is more athletic and a bigger play maker than any QB we currently have!
  • Speight has been in the system for three years.

    O'Korn has been a system for three years.

    Peters has been in the system for two years.

    There are no excuses for poor QB play with so many young QBs across the country playing and playing successfully.

    Go Blue!!


    Because the back up is better right? There is no reason to play anyone but Speight. I'm sure FL or Fla St would take Speight over anyone they are throwing out there on Sat. But all QB's are playing so well...typical Scottsdale fanning the flames of nothingness

  • Speight is a hard working and looks the part, but he still has an adjusted QB rating that puts him at #102 in FBS. He has played poorly. Anyone who says QB ratings don't matter or that he's played well or even average is not being honest with themselves.

    No one is above constructive criticism and there are real concerns with Speight. The pattern is not good, he finished last year terribly. 2 games into 2017 and he's still executing poorly; fumbles, overthrows, interceptions. When we play against some very strong defenses (PSU, OSU, Wiscy) they'll stuff the line, take away the run and force Speight to beat them over the top, with his arm. That's a concern. I hope he settles in and regains confidence, he has tremendous potential and ability.

    For the kool aid fans like uneek1, Speight is not performing at a championship level. His stats are misleading, as our talented receivers make up for Speight's lack of accuracy. When reviewing Speight's passes from last year and the first two of this year, most were either over or under-thrown which led to incompletions, lack of an opportunity for the receiver to produce any yardage after the catch and/or an acrobatic reception. Our QB standard has to be higher, if there's no one better, prove it to the fans by putting Peters in, we know O'Korns' lack of capability. That would end the discussion. If Speight is the best we have then run the plays where he has the least opportunity to screw it up but we don't have to settle for mediocre either in the player or the coach and we have a duty to voice our displeasure because we'll still be fans long after the coaches and players leave.

    Go Blue!!
  • Speight is a hard working and looks the part, but he still has an adjusted QB rating that puts him at #102 in FBS. He has played poorly. Anyone who says QB ratings don't matter or that he's played well or even average is not being honest with themselves.

    No one is above constructive criticism and there are real concerns with Speight. The pattern is not good, he finished last year terribly. 2 games into 2017 and he's still executing poorly; fumbles, overthrows, interceptions. When we play against some very strong defenses (PSU, OSU, Wiscy) they'll stuff the line, take away the run and force Speight to beat them over the top, with his arm. That's a concern. I hope he settles in and regains confidence, he has tremendous potential and ability.

    For the kool aid fans like uneek1, Speight is not performing at a championship level. His stats are misleading, as our talented receivers make up for Speight's lack of accuracy. When reviewing Speight's passes from last year and the first two of this year, most were either over or under-thrown which led to incompletions, lack of an opportunity for the receiver to produce any yardage after the catch and/or an acrobatic reception. Our QB standard has to be higher, if there's no one better, prove it to the fans by putting Peters in, we know O'Korns' lack of capability. That would end the discussion. If Speight is the best we have then run the plays where he has the least opportunity to screw it up but we don't have to settle for mediocre either in the player or the coach and we have a duty to voice our displeasure because we'll still be fans long after the coaches and players leave.

    Go Blue!!


    I like grape kool aid thank you Scotts. Again no one is saying Speight is playing perfect but you do realize its week 3. Week freakin 3. So if you expect perfection in week 3 then you my friend are drinking kool aid mixed with some everclear!! Or your drinking Kool Aid in Guyana either way its no good for you.

    I'm not sure what your standards are but they aren't higher than JH's and he feels no need for change. Nor does he owe you anything based on Speights play. The current QB has NOT played bad enough to warrant any kind of change. The O can be better but again everyone on that side skill wise is brand new. You claim to be an O guy you should know that it tales a while for execution on O.  

    I remember you used to rail in Ruddock and lead that angry mob until JH proved to you and everyone else he was the guy. The back up isn't always the answer and in this case he definitely isn't the answer!

  • uneek1 said:
    Speight is a hard working and looks the part, but he still has an adjusted QB rating that puts him at #102 in FBS. He has played poorly. Anyone who says QB ratings don't matter or that he's played well or even average is not being honest with themselves.

    No one is above constructive criticism and there are real concerns with Speight. The pattern is not good, he finished last year terribly. 2 games into 2017 and he's still executing poorly; fumbles, overthrows, interceptions. When we play against some very strong defenses (PSU, OSU, Wiscy) they'll stuff the line, take away the run and force Speight to beat them over the top, with his arm. That's a concern. I hope he settles in and regains confidence, he has tremendous potential and ability.

    For the kool aid fans like uneek1, Speight is not performing at a championship level. His stats are misleading, as our talented receivers make up for Speight's lack of accuracy. When reviewing Speight's passes from last year and the first two of this year, most were either over or under-thrown which led to incompletions, lack of an opportunity for the receiver to produce any yardage after the catch and/or an acrobatic reception. Our QB standard has to be higher, if there's no one better, prove it to the fans by putting Peters in, we know O'Korns' lack of capability. That would end the discussion. If Speight is the best we have then run the plays where he has the least opportunity to screw it up but we don't have to settle for mediocre either in the player or the coach and we have a duty to voice our displeasure because we'll still be fans long after the coaches and players leave.

    Go Blue!!


    I like grape kool aid thank you Scotts. Again no one is saying Speight is playing perfect but you do realize its week 3. Week freakin 3. So if you expect perfection in week 3 then you my friend are drinking kool aid mixed with some everclear!! Or your drinking Kool Aid in Guyana either way its no good for you.

    I'm not sure what your standards are but they aren't higher than JH's and he feels no need for change. Nor does he owe you anything based on Speights play. The current QB has NOT played bad enough to warrant any kind of change. The O can be better but again everyone on that side skill wise is brand new. You claim to be an O guy you should know that it tales a while for execution on O.  

    I remember you used to rail in Ruddock and lead that angry mob until JH proved to you and everyone else he was the guy. The back up isn't always the answer and in this case he definitely isn't the answer!

    This mediocre play from Speight (and I'm being kind by calling Speight's play mediocre) didn't just start this season.  It started during Michigan losing 3 of their last 4 games of last season which happened to be the 3 toughest games Michigan played.  And that mediocre play has carried over to this season and I haven't seen any improvement.  Speight had an entire off season to work on his struggles he showed at the end of last season and he's entering his 3rd year in this system so why is he still showing the same struggles he showed at the end of last season?  That's been Scottsdale's point.  

    I'm not ready to pull the plug on Speight just yet.  But my patience is waning week to week and I feel like his leash should be getting shorter and shorter.  USC bit the bullet and went to a red-shirt frosh last year by the name of Sam Darnold and all he's done is won 11 straight games since losing in his starting debut for the Trojans.  If Speight continues to barely crack 30 on his QBR, how long until we give Peters a chance???

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