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UMGOBLUE.COM

Get Tough and Rebound or go home

The thing the frustrates me the most with this team is that they are soft. they get out rebounded all the time and they play with no passion. I used to think it was the fact they hadnt played a lot of man to man but watching them last Friday agianst WIS and against Ind proved to me they are softer than baby crap. Belien needs to get more tough guys like Mcgary and stress rebounds. If they cabn give teams one shot opportunities they can go far if not it will be another one and done year!!
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  • The thing the frustrates me the most with this team is that they are soft. they get out rebounded all the time and they play with no passion. I used to think it was the fact they hadnt played a lot of man to man but watching them last Friday agianst WIS and against Ind proved to me they are softer than baby crap. Belien needs to get more tough guys like Mcgary and stress rebounds. If they cabn give teams one shot opportunities they can go far if not it will be another one and done year!!
  • Or maybe they have just played really good teams? Let's wait and see what happens when the Big Ten is released on the field. If they sputter as a league then take your shots at anyone one you want to. Until then have some patience. -W. Axel Rose. Lol.
  • I have been more than patient my man. They get out rebounded every single game. Your not going to win many tournament games by giving other teams second and third chances. I am not concerned with our offensive rebounding but more the other teams. Last sunday aginst Ind they gave up 29 offensive boards that equates to a lot of points that can be prevented. Sometimes you can play good D and they make shots nothing you can do about that but rebounding is about two things toughness and effort something Belien doesnt stress that and it bites them in the butt everytime!!!
  • Hit more shots my man. If they don't shoot the ball better they will gone. That's the way this team is built. Much like Duke every year. They live and die by it.
  • Rebounding, offensive or defensive, is about position more than anything else. The work has to be done as the ball goes up or before, NOT when everyone suddenly realizes it's going to be a miss. It's how a six-footer like Burke can grab a rebound among the trees and why McGary is so effective (position is easier when you take up lots of space in the middle). It's just work, work, work. We excel in transition, which just doesn't happen when the other guy gets the rebound.

    I doubt if we will be one and done this year- SDSU simply doesn't have the inside game, and we all know what happens when a team depends on one guy to win a game. It can work, but not against good competition, and "soft" or not, we are just that.

    We still need to stop with the slow starts in games and shoot better, but we're not exactly going to be playing against O$U's defense, either.
  • I agree. The competition should let up slightly at first. That's why I feel it was good they were beat when they were. Look for Wisky and O$U to come out sluggish in the first half. I don't care how young these guys are, it's tough to play that many games in a row.
  • listen all of these guys are used to playing multiple games this time of year so I am not going to give any credence to that regardkless of competition. Basketball is the one sport that the better teams lose to lesser teams more because of factors like 3 point shooting and 2nd chance opportunities. The reason the miss shots frankly is because they dont drive to the basket enough. If I were coaching this team I would tell them point blank for the first 8-10 min of the game we are either driving to draw fouls or shoot mid range jumpers off of dribble penetration. One of UM's problems is that they get out of running the offense and start watching TB do everything. Bottom line run the offense and you will hit shots!!!
  • That's the style we play. That's the style our coach has always played. It is not going to change 95% into the season. Let's see what happens next week and go from there. Go Blue. If you were coaching this team we would all be in trouble. Lol.
  • MgoBrett wrote:

    That's the style we play. That's the style our coach has always played. It is not going to change 95% into the season. Let's see what happens next week and go from there. Go Blue. If you were coaching this team we would all be in trouble. Lol.
     
    I don't agree with this completely.  uneek has a point in his last post.  We had GREAT success vs. MSU in getting points in the paint.  And they weren't the traditional variety coming from Morgan/McGary/Horford.  It was from penetration and not settling on the 3-ball.  Why we don't try to attack the rim more like we saw in that rematch with Sparty is beyond me.  This team has far too many dry spells where they go prolonged periods without making fg's.  We were 0-12 from 3-point land in that Sparty game and instead of settling for perimeter shots, they attacked the basket and limited their droughts in that game.  That didn't happen in our loss to Wisky over the weekend and instead we suffered through an extended drought in the 2nd half and it cost us the game.
     
    It may be too late now, but I just don't see how, as a coaching staff, you don't emphasize that Sparty game going forward so this team isn't so heavily reliant on the 3-ball!

  • You don't "get" tough. You either come in with tough guys or you develop it throughout the course of the season. There's no flip to switch.

    By and large we don't recruit tough guys and its not practiced or required on a daily basis. We have a finesse system which comes with pros and cons, better get use to it.
  • very good points made by all but especially agree with the fact we  MUST rebound better defensively!!  If we give up half of what we did to IU we win the game easily.  Also very much agree we should not need to take a bunch of 3's on Thursday.  Should be that much more athletic than SDSU.  GO BLUE
  • If I were coaching this team we def would have gone further in the B10 tourney. Against WIS I would have made TB and THJr. drive everytime. Did you notice when they were down 8 2ith 5 minutes they cut the lead to 2 by going to the basket or was that a result of jump shots? MgoBrett you are probably a young guy who doesnt really understand baskeball except on the surface. It is easy to say "make more shots" but the reality is that there are going to be a lot of games where your outside shot isnt falling therefore u have to do something else to score. all of the perimiter guys can get shots off penetration and when your shot isnt falling you need to get to the line and in order to do that you have to drive. But thats not their problem they simply need to focus on rebounding and limiting 2nd chance shots by the opposition. Play Morgan and McGary together for a few minutes and get some boards. I would rather limit teams to one shot than make jumpshots only to allow the opposition to come down and get two and thre shots a possession. Defense and rebounding help you win more than good shooting (although it doesnt hurt)
  • uneek1 wrote:

    If I were coaching this team we def would have gone further in the B10 tourney.
     
    Someone, quick, give Dave Brandon a call...


  • very good points made by all but especially agree with the fact we  MUST rebound better defensively!!  If we give up half of what we did to IU we win the game easily.  Also very much agree we should not need to take a bunch of 3's on Thursday.  Should be that much more athletic than SDSU.  GO BLUE
     
    One thing we have going for us in the tournament is I don't see a lot of size when looking at SDSU and looking forward to possibly playing VCU in the 2nd round.  I don't see a Cody Zeller on either lineup so I don't see us being exposed quite as badly as we saw in that IU game. 
     
    And furthermore, we actually outrebounded both PSU and Wisky in the B1G Tournament and we limited Wisky to just 9 offensive rebounds fwiw...

  • Matty would you be my asst head coach? You can be in charge of putting the chairs out during time outs a tradition started by Steve Fisher

  • very good points made by all but especially agree with the fact we  MUST rebound better defensively!!  If we give up half of what we did to IU we win the game easily.  Also very much agree we should not need to take a bunch of 3's on Thursday.  Should be that much more athletic than SDSU.  GO BLUE

    One thing we have going for us in the tournament is I don't see a lot of size when looking at SDSU and looking forward to possibly playing VCU in the 2nd round.  I don't see a Cody Zeller on either lineup so I don't see us being exposed quite as badly as we saw in that IU game. 

    And furthermore, we actually outrebounded both PSU and Wisky in the B1G Tournament and we limited Wisky to just 9 offensive rebounds fwiw...
    9 offensive rebounds is a lot I would have been more impressed with 2 or 3 and they gave up 8 2nd chance points and lost by 9 so it def helps to grab def rebounds
  • Actually I have coached basketball for fifteen years. Just don't have the time to write three pages on the basics of basketball. And I also get sick of people criticising our coach who knows more about basketball then you or me or anyone else in this forum, unless Coach K has an account here that I don't know about. Unless you are Coach K? Are you?
  • uneek1 wrote:

    very good points made by all but especially agree with the fact we  MUST rebound better defensively!!  If we give up half of what we did to IU we win the game easily.  Also very much agree we should not need to take a bunch of 3's on Thursday.  Should be that much more athletic than SDSU.  GO BLUE

    One thing we have going for us in the tournament is I don't see a lot of size when looking at SDSU and looking forward to possibly playing VCU in the 2nd round.  I don't see a Cody Zeller on either lineup so I don't see us being exposed quite as badly as we saw in that IU game. 

    And furthermore, we actually outrebounded both PSU and Wisky in the B1G Tournament and we limited Wisky to just 9 offensive rebounds fwiw...
    9 offensive rebounds is a lot I would have been more impressed with 2 or 3 and they gave up 8 2nd chance points and lost by 9 so it def helps to grab def rebounds
    9 offensively rebounds isn't a lot when Wisconsin missed as many shots as they did.
     
    With that said, we're going to get beaten on the glass in most games. Not only do we not put a lot of size out on the court, despite having it, we flat out don't rebound the ball well. We're lazy and soft around the basket.
  • MgoBrett wrote:

    Actually I have coached basketball for fifteen years. Just don't have the time to write three pages on the basics of basketball. And I also get sick of people criticising our coach who knows more about basketball then you or me or anyone else in this forum, unless Coach K has an account here that I don't know about. Unless you are Coach K? Are you?
     
    Seconded!  Not to mention criticizing our coach who has already won a B1G Championship, came up short of making it two in a row this season and has us playing in the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year and 4th appearance in 5 years.  Yet somehow that isn't good enough?!
  • uneek1 wrote:
    9 offensive rebounds is a lot I would have been more impressed with 2 or 3 and they gave up 8 2nd chance points and lost by 9 so it def helps to grab def rebounds
     
    Well, we also had 9 offensive rebounds and we had 6 2nd chance points.  Offensive rebounding is not what cost us the game against Wisconsin.
     
    Now, vs. IU we gave up 24 offensive rebounds.  THAT is a lot.  Not 9...

  • MgoBrett wrote:

    Actually I have coached basketball for fifteen years. Just don't have the time to write three pages on the basics of basketball. And I also get sick of people criticising our coach who knows more about basketball then you or me or anyone else in this forum, unless Coach K has an account here that I don't know about. Unless you are Coach K? Are you?

    Seconded!  Not to mention criticizing our coach who has already won a B1G Championship, came up short of making it two in a row this season and has us playing in the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year.  Yet somehow that isn't good enough?!
    Expectations naturally rise with talent and resources, as they should. My expectations are relative to the talent on hand. Belien has made ZERO runs in the tournament with 6 years on the job. He has his most talented team since taking over, you're damn right expectations are high!
     
    What's the point of a discussion board if we all hold hands and sing kumbaya? Criticism is part of it, especially when it's legitimate.
  • MgoBrett wrote:

    Actually I have coached basketball for fifteen years. Just don't have the time to write three pages on the basics of basketball. And I also get sick of people criticising our coach who knows more about basketball then you or me or anyone else in this forum, unless Coach K has an account here that I don't know about. Unless you are Coach K? Are you?

    Seconded!  Not to mention criticizing our coach who has already won a B1G Championship, came up short of making it two in a row this season and has us playing in the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year.  Yet somehow that isn't good enough?!

    First off there wasnt one post that criticzied Belien. All I said was the coaches need to emphasize rebounding and driving to the basket more. As some one who claims to have coached for 15 years that is baskteball 101 I wont get into my creditentials but I did receive a basketball scholarship to a major D2 now D1 program who upset Mizzou last year in the NCAA tourney. Second I have and always will be behind this team weather Gary Grant, Dugan Phife, or Avery Queen is the point guard or. I have suffered as a fan like the rest of you even when I was playing CBB I still routed for UM.
      
    Belien is a good coach and I have even posted threads to compliment him when he deserves it. He is not doing a bad job by any means but lets be real the last few years in the B10 tourney and in last years NCAA the boys were not prepared and that is on the coach. I am no Coach K but I know enough bball to point out flaws in everyones program including Coach K's which BTW he hasnt been playing up to par the last few years in the tourneys either. I realize they are kids so they will make mistakes but lets be clear I am glad Belien is the coach and I am behind this team 1000%
  • uneek1 wrote:
    MgoBrett wrote:

    Actually I have coached basketball for fifteen years. Just don't have the time to write three pages on the basics of basketball. And I also get sick of people criticising our coach who knows more about basketball then you or me or anyone else in this forum, unless Coach K has an account here that I don't know about. Unless you are Coach K? Are you?

    Seconded!  Not to mention criticizing our coach who has already won a B1G Championship, came up short of making it two in a row this season and has us playing in the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year.  Yet somehow that isn't good enough?!

    First off there wasnt one post that criticzied Belien. All I said was the coaches need to emphasize rebounding and driving to the basket more. As some one who claims to have coached for 15 years that is baskteball 101 I wont get into my creditentials but I did receive a basketball scholarship to a major D2 now D1 program who upset Mizzou last year in the NCAA tourney. Second I have and always will be behind this team weather Gary Grant, Dugan Phife, or Avery Queen is the point guard or. I have suffered as a fan like the rest of you even when I was playing CBB I still routed for UM.
     
    Belien is a good coach and I have even posted threads to compliment him when he deserves it. He is not doing a bad job by any means but lets be real the last few years in the B10 tourney and in last years NCAA the boys were not prepared and that is on the coach. I am no Coach K but I know enough bball to point out flaws in everyones program including Coach K's which BTW he hasnt been playing up to par the last few years in the tourneys either. I realize they are kids so they will make mistakes but lets be clear I am glad Belien is the coach and I am behind this team 1000%
    To hell with that! Lmao.
     
    Since when is criticism out of bounds, especially when its true? I haven't seen anything said that's made up or personal. We're soft around the basket and it hurts our chances, that's reality and a legit knock IMO.
  • uneek1 wrote:
    MgoBrett wrote:

    Actually I have coached basketball for fifteen years. Just don't have the time to write three pages on the basics of basketball. And I also get sick of people criticising our coach who knows more about basketball then you or me or anyone else in this forum, unless Coach K has an account here that I don't know about. Unless you are Coach K? Are you?

    Seconded!  Not to mention criticizing our coach who has already won a B1G Championship, came up short of making it two in a row this season and has us playing in the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd straight year.  Yet somehow that isn't good enough?!

    First off there wasnt one post that criticzied Belien. All I said was the coaches need to emphasize rebounding and driving to the basket more. As some one who claims to have coached for 15 years that is baskteball 101 I wont get into my creditentials but I did receive a basketball scholarship to a major D2 now D1 program who upset Mizzou last year in the NCAA tourney. Second I have and always will be behind this team weather Gary Grant, Dugan Phife, or Avery Queen is the point guard or. I have suffered as a fan like the rest of you even when I was playing CBB I still routed for UM.

    Belien is a good coach and I have even posted threads to compliment him when he deserves it. He is not doing a bad job by any means but lets be real the last few years in the B10 tourney and in last years NCAA the boys were not prepared and that is on the coach. I am no Coach K but I know enough bball to point out flaws in everyones program including Coach K's which BTW he hasnt been playing up to par the last few years in the tourneys either. I realize they are kids so they will make mistakes but lets be clear I am glad Belien is the coach and I am behind this team 1000%
    To hell with that! Lmao.

    Since when is criticism out of bounds, especially when its true? I haven't seen anything said that's made up or personal. We're soft around the basket and it hurts our chances, that's reality and a legit knock IMO.

    I am right there with u MichFan they are soft around the basket and its killing them. But dont say anything because that means your not behind this team or you think you know more bball than Belien....
    I am a realist like you when they deserve praise they get it when they dont they get pointed out..
    Here what i am asking just make the sweet sixteen and all sins will be forgiven thats two wins against non-BCS schools is it that hard to pull off?
  • I said Elite 8 or bust at the start of the season, and I don't that that's an unrealistic expectation given the mix of talent, size, FINALLY athleticism, and yes experience on the roster. As far as today's basketball goes, having 2 juniors and a sophomore in the starting lineup is a lot of experience when you have talent.
     
    There's NO excuse for not making a deep run this year IMO.
  • Expectations naturally rise with talent and resources, as they should. My expectations are relative to the talent on hand. Belien has made ZERO runs in the tournament with 6 years on the job. He has his most talented team since taking over, you're damn right expectations are high!

    What's the point of a discussion board if we all hold hands and sing kumbaya? Criticism is part of it, especially when it's legitimate.
    You say your expectations are relative to the talent on hand which is valid. Then you proceed to point out that Beilein has made zero runs in the tournament in his 6 years on the job. Well, I would argue that this is the first year where we could say we have the talent to validate lofty expectations. Our previous 3 NCAA tournament appearances? Not so much. We were a 10 seed in 2009 and lost to #2 seed OU (who advanced to the Elite 8) in the 2nd round. Were your expectations not met then? In 2011 we were an 8 seed and had to meet #1 seed Duke in the 2nd round where we lost by 2 after a Darius Morris jumper in the lane rimmed out.  Again, did that fall short of your expectations?  Last year, like this year, we were a 4 seed and I will concede expectations were not met in the tournament last year despite the fact that last year's team COMPLETEY overachieved on the season as a whole in winning a share of the B1G.
     
    The way I look at things is, at least Beilein has been getting this team to the dance.  This program was a mess when he took over 6 years ago and yet he has made the tournament 4 of the last 5 years.  And the reality is, last year was the ONLY year expectations were not met in the tournament based on our seed. 
  • uneek1 wrote:


    First off there wasnt one post that criticzied Belien.
     
    No you just said if you were the coach we would have beaten Wisconsin... [8|] 

  • There's NO excuse for not making a deep run this year IMO.
     
    I agree with you on this.  If we see an early exit from the tournament, questions will need to be answered from this coaching staff as to why they can't get things done come tournament time.  Beilein has failed to win more than one game in the conference tournament and the NCAA tournament since his arrival.  Granted, much of that has to do with his teams being lower seeds in the 2nd round but that excuse won't fly this year.  And, given what happened last year in the NCAA tournament, there would be some cause for concern if we saw what is by far the most talented team Beilein has had a Michigan make yet another early exit come March.
     
    I want at least the Sweet 16.  That said, if we happen to get to the round of 16 and lose to Kansas, I won't call it a bust.
  • I have said at least three times now, let's see what happens in the next couple of weeks and go from there. Be critical when the time is right to be critical. That's it. And it must suck for Duke to not have done so well in the last few years. A NC is never something to get excited about. And yes I know they have excited early around that NC before I get lectured again. Go Blue!
  • uneek1 wrote:


    First off there wasnt one post that criticzied Belien.

    No you just said if you were the coach we would have beaten Wisconsin... [8|] 

    After someone made the comment basically saying thank god I am not the coach....
    but I would have been able to recognize what was needed to beat WIS which was going to the basket against their slower defenders....and it wasnt like WIS played lights out bball
    But Matty from now on only postives here....So guys go out there and give it the good ol' college try like the Michigan Men you are!!!
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