Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right

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Philc
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Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Wednesday, April 23, 2014 1:42 PM
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The newly renovated Schembechler Hall pays homage to former Michigan greats and includes a display of Michigan’s past success. But in Ann Arbor those triumphs are starting to feel like something from the distant past. It’s been a decade since the team last won the Big Ten title under coach Lloyd Carr.
 
As Brady Hoke enters his fourth season Michigan fans are tired of rebuilding—it’s time for results.

 
 
http://bleacherreport.com...adership-why-hes-right
 
 
Phil Callihan    Editor-in-Chief   UMGoBlue.COM

wolverinefan07
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:15 PM
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10 years since a B1G championship? DAMN...I'm a Hoke fan but he MUST produce a 10-win season, at the very least, to keep the heat off him & my full support!
"No man is more important than the team, no coach is more important than the team...the Team, the Team, the Team!"

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:45 PM
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Reads like a man who's out of ideas and doing whatever he can to save his job.  Five months ago it was the players' fault for not executing.  All of a sudden now he's accountable.  I don't disagree at all, but I wonder what took him so damn long to figure that out.  I thought he only sounded like he's thicker than whale sh!t.
"We have to work harder."
-Brady "BRadio" Hoke during any post-game press conference in the last year.

MichFan4Life
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:47 PM
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wolverinefan07


10 years since a B1G championship? DAMN...I'm a Hoke fan but he MUST produce a 10-win season, at the very least, to keep the heat off him & my full support!

Even during the Bump Elliot years we didn't go 10 years without a Big 10 crown.
 
Leaders and Best
 
"Only the good ones come to Michigan"
-Dennis Franklin

wolverinefan07
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:43 PM
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MichFan4Life


wolverinefan07


10 years since a B1G championship? DAMN...I'm a Hoke fan but he MUST produce a 10-win season, at the very least, to keep the heat off him & my full support!

Even during the Bump Elliot years we didn't go 10 years without a Big 10 crown.

Leaders and Best

 
THAT is pretty bad! To say that Hoke is feeling pressure for 2014 is an understatement. Definitely, not the program I became a fanatic of, way back in the mid-70s 
"No man is more important than the team, no coach is more important than the team...the Team, the Team, the Team!"

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:56 PM
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So, I wonder if the new museum in Schembechler Hall has a 'how many days since we won a big 10 championship' clock...'

Go Blue!!

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.


jthorp24
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 3:47 AM
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I hope Hoke is kind of trolling us... I expect better things. I believe he does as well. I still have faith in him. This is the do or die season. 

 

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:11 AM
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Hoke made his own bed with Borges, Mallory and Funk.   So the fact his bed is extremely uncomfortable and hot is all on him.
 
I don't dislike Hoke at all, IMO he brought some of the old Michigan arrogance with him.  We're Michigan so we will win, Hoke forgot about hard work.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:57 AM
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jthorp24


I hope Hoke is kind of trolling us... I expect better things. I believe he does as well. I still have faith in him. This is the do or die season. 

 
+1
"No man is more important than the team, no coach is more important than the team...the Team, the Team, the Team!"

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:59 AM
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Hoke's been accountable the whole time.  
 
The conference drought has been one of the most vexing issues since '06 if you ask me.  That said, our coach has also demonstrated he's willing to make difficult moves/decisions to try to address this team's deficiencies:
- He fired Borges, something that I would wager a decent sum of cash on that only a few people actually thought would happen after last season.  
- He subsequently went out and got the best OC available. 
- He re-organized the entire defensive staff
 
I appreciate that we have a coach who's willing to take the burden of responsibility, who doesn't sit there and throw his staff and players under the bus, and I continue to think that we have a staff that can get this team where it needs to be.
 
The whole "we didn't execute" was not some slam on the players, it was blatantly obvious fact.  It was a statement that applied to the coaching staff and to the team as a whole.  You show me one quote where Hoke or anyone else on this staff singled out a player, it didn't happen.  I have no issue with Hoke stating we didn't execute.  When you get called for delay of game taking you out of FG range, the coaching staff blew their execution of game management.  When Al Borges calls 27 runs for 27 yards, his execution and adaptation of the game plan was... er... lacking.  When our offensive line gets blown three yards back on every snap in East Lansing, they sure as hell didn't execute.  Stating that isn't ducking responsibility or passing the buck.
 
 
What the mind can conceive, the mind can achieve; and those who stay will be Champions. 
 
GO BLUE!

MichFan4Life
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:18 AM
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scmgoblue


Hoke's been accountable the whole time.  

The conference drought has been one of the most vexing issues since '06 if you ask me.  That said, our coach has also demonstrated he's willing to make difficult moves/decisions to try to address this team's deficiencies:
- He fired Borges, something that I would wager a decent sum of cash on that only a few people actually thought would happen after last season.  
- He subsequently went out and got the best OC available. 
- He re-organized the entire defensive staff

I appreciate that we have a coach who's willing to take the burden of responsibility, who doesn't sit there and throw his staff and players under the bus, and I continue to think that we have a staff that can get this team where it needs to be.

The whole "we didn't execute" was not some slam on the players, it was blatantly obvious fact.  It was a statement that applied to the coaching staff and to the team as a whole.  You show me one quote where Hoke or anyone else on this staff singled out a player, it didn't happen.  I have no issue with Hoke stating we didn't execute.  When you get called for delay of game taking you out of FG range, the coaching staff blew their execution of game management.  When Al Borges calls 27 runs for 27 yards, his execution and adaptation of the game plan was... er... lacking.  When our offensive line gets blown three yards back on every snap in East Lansing, they sure as hell didn't execute.  Stating that isn't ducking responsibility or passing the buck.

Good to see you around Scmgoblue
 
I would argue that it depends on context. Point out that there were execution issues isn't the problem, I think most could see those problems. I think where most people had issues and viewed the "execution" comments as throwing the players under the bus is when they came is response to questions about the coaching/playcalling specifically. Hoke and Borges would be asked about coaching related things specifically, like would you have have called things differently, or what could have been done differently coaching wise. Their response, particularly during the middle of the season was almost exclusively based on "execution." I remember Hoke being asked flat out if he was happy with the playcalling following Michigan State and Iowa (two of the worst coached games of the year mind you) and he blamed execution issues. Did I expect him to throw Borges/GMatt under the bus, no but he very easily could have said we can/have to do better jobs as coaches. Those type statements didn't come until the very end of the season after fans expressed outrage and accused the coaches of throwing players under the bus. The same thing happened after we played Ohio State. The questions was asked what was different about that game offensively vs. the previous games and the response was, well we executed the gameplan better (which was straight BS btw, the calls in that game were very different than the previous games).
 
I consider all of that ducking responsibility. Particularly when we're talking about game to game and season to season issues.
<message edited by MichFan4Life on Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:45 AM>
 
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ScottsdaleBlue
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:34 AM
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My concern is why, in the past 2 years (specifically last year) did this coaching staff continually put the players and the team in a position to lose by having them try to execute plays they cannot execute? I don't have a lot of faith in this staff's ability to identify strengths...and play to those strengths. I'm hoping that changes with the addition of Nuss and the defensive staff reshuffle.

Here's a good example I'm speaking about. Against P$U, you have 3rd-and-inches inside the P$U 16 in OT after they fumbled the ball on their possession, a FG kicker who is 1 for his last 3 in about the last 15 minutes of real time, an RB who has 26 yards on 26 carries, a 6-4 QB who can get you 5-10 yards a chunk running the ball on his own, you're on the road in front of a hostile crowd and you opt to take the same conservative approach that caused you to cough up a 10-point, 4th-quarter lead, which put you into OT to begin with. That is not learning from earlier mistakes. And then the Hoke blames the players for not executing. Inexcusable for Hoke to say the players had to block better, tackle better, execute better, la la la. That happens in every football game across the country, but Hoke and Company also need to put them in a position to win, not set your kicker up for failure. We have enough talent to win every game on our schedule and there are going to be games where the players are just off, but last season was 100% on the coaching staff.

Go Blue!!
 
<message edited by ScottsdaleBlue on Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:53 AM>

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.


MichFan4Life
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:50 AM
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p.s This isn't limited to Borges and the offense. The defense has given up an average of 26ppg against ND, Mich St, and Ohio State over the last 3 years (avg would be higher if you included bowl games.) Greg Mattison is as much in the cross hairs for his unit's performance as anyone.
 
Now GMatt inherited a much worse situation taking over one of the worst defensive units in the country which is why he's largely escaped criticism to this point. Going into this year though, with a veteran unit comprised almost exclusively of players that he and his staff recruited, that honeymoon period free pass has run out.
 
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:55 AM
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MichFan4Life


p.s This isn't limited to Borges and the offense. The defense has given up an average of 26ppg against ND, Mich St, and Ohio State over the last 3 years (avg would be higher if you included bowl games.) Greg Mattison is as much in the cross hairs for his unit's performance as anyone.

 
You mean this stuff that you wrote last fall....
 
MichFan4Life
 

With all due respect to Mr. Mattison who deserves a lot of credit for his track record and turning this defense around. His units have flat out sh*t the bed in a number of big games over the last 3 years, including all 3 games against Ohio. 

2011 
Notre Dame- D gives up 31 
Mich St- D gives up 28 (helped by offensive giveaways) 
Ohio State- D gives up 34 


2012 
Alabama- D gives up 41 
Northwestern- D gives up 31 
Ohio State- D gives up 26 
South Carolina-D gives up 33 


2013 
Notre Dame- D gives up 30 
Penn State- D gives up 43 
Ohio State- D gives up 42 

Now we all bag on Al Borges for his performances, but his units have showed up in a number of big games over the last 3 years and it has been the defense that has let us down. We're here at the end of the year 3 and can we really say that this defense is better than they were in year 1? Are we even close to putting out a truly elite (not just statistically) defense? 

Honeymoon is over for me with GMatt. Not trying to run him out of town, his units have kept us afloat in a number of games when the offense has been absolutely terrible, but our defensive performances in big games has been less than stellar. 

 
 
Go Blue!!
 

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.


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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:02 AM
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MichFan4Life

Good to see you around Scmgoblue

I would argue that it depends on context. Point out that there were execution issues isn't the problem, I think most could see those problems. I think where most people had issues and viewed the "execution" comments as throwing the players under the bus is when they came is response to questions about the coaching/playcalling specifically. Hoke and Borges would be asked about coaching related things specifically, like would you have have called things differently, or what could have been done differently coaching wise. Their response, particularly during the middle of the season was almost exclusively based on "execution." I remember Hoke being asked flat out if he was happy with the playcalling following Michigan State and Iowa (two of the worst coached games of the year mind you) and he blamed execution issues. Did I expect him to throw Borges/GMatt under the bus, no but he very easily could have said we can/have to do better jobs as coaches. Those type statements didn't come until the very end of the season after fans expressed outrage and accused the coaches of throwing players under the bus. The same thing happened after we played Ohio State. The questions was asked what was different about that game offensively vs. the previous games and the response was, well we executed the gameplan better (which was straight BS btw, the calls in that game were very different than the previous games).

I consider all of that ducking responsibility. Particularly when we're talking about game to game and season to season issues.

Thanks!
 
I understand that line of thinking, I guess I interpret that as Hoke being the type of guy who is going to give the media nothing to disrupt his locker-room and staff while I imagine behind closed doors it's a different story.  I understand where you're coming from with that though.
What the mind can conceive, the mind can achieve; and those who stay will be Champions. 
 
GO BLUE!

MichFan4Life
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:08 AM
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Listen I`m still trying to understand the logic of continually running play action passes while having negative rushing yards. Or playing our CBs 5-7yds off the ball on 3rd and short. Or two separate offensive lines struggling to run block, each with different personnel (2012 and 2013).
 
Yet we sit bewildered during the post game and muse on execution issues
ScottsdaleBlue


My concern is why, in the past 2 years (specifically last year) did this coaching staff continually put the players and the team in a position to lose by having them try to execute plays they cannot execute? I don't have a lot of faith in this staff's ability to identify strengths...and play to those strengths. I'm hoping that changes with the addition of Nuss and the defensive staff reshuffle.

Here's a good example I'm speaking about. Against P$U, you have 3rd-and-inches inside the P$U 16 in OT after they fumbled the ball on their possession, a FG kicker who is 1 for his last 3 in about the last 15 minutes of real time, an RB who has 26 yards on 26 carries, a 6-4 QB who can get you 5-10 yards a chunk running the ball on his own, you're on the road in front of a hostile crowd and you opt to take the same conservative approach that caused you to cough up a 10-point, 4th-quarter lead, which put you into OT to begin with. That is not learning from earlier mistakes. And then the Hoke blames the players for not executing. Inexcusable for Hoke to say the players had to block better, tackle better, execute better, la la la. That happens in every football game across the country, but Hoke and Company also need to put them in a position to win, not set your kicker up for failure. We have enough talent to win every game on our schedule and there are going to be games where the players are just off, but last season was 100% on the coaching staff.

Go Blue!!



 
"Only the good ones come to Michigan"
-Dennis Franklin

scmgoblue
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:25 AM
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ScottsdaleBlue


My concern is why, in the past 2 years (specifically last year) did this coaching staff continually put the players and the team in a position to lose by having them try to execute plays they cannot execute? I don't have a lot of faith in this staff's ability to identify strengths...and play to those strengths. I'm hoping that changes with the addition of Nuss and the defensive staff reshuffle.

Here's a good example I'm speaking about. Against P$U, you have 3rd-and-inches inside the P$U 16 in OT after they fumbled the ball on their possession, a FG kicker who is 1 for his last 3 in about the last 15 minutes of real time, an RB who has 26 yards on 26 carries, a 6-4 QB who can get you 5-10 yards a chunk running the ball on his own, you're on the road in front of a hostile crowd and you opt to take the same conservative approach that caused you to cough up a 10-point, 4th-quarter lead, which put you into OT to begin with. That is not learning from earlier mistakes. And then the Hoke blames the players for not executing. Inexcusable for Hoke to say the players had to block better, tackle better, execute better, la la la. That happens in every football game across the country, but Hoke and Company also need to put them in a position to win, not set your kicker up for failure. We have enough talent to win every game on our schedule and there are going to be games where the players are just off, but last season was 100% on the coaching staff.

Go Blue!!


 
That game in particular was the single worst handling of in-game strategy and tactics we've seen in Hoke's tenure, but I do think it stands as an outlier of his three years here thus far (one could argue the 2012 ND game was another example... Vincent Smith halfback pass ).  At the time I blamed it entirely on Borges, though to be fair I was having an aneurysm in the stadium watching us blow what had been a great second half performance to take a 10 pt lead.  My general impression is that Hoke wasn't much meddling in playcalls, I put the timeout entirely on him, but the slam into the line on inches to go, I don't know man, I still think that was a Borges special.  We could certainly discuss that Hoke should've weighed in more on game-changing decisions re: playcalls, but I guess I don't view Hoke's responses to press conference questions as anything more than bland formulaic responses to often terrible questions.  This doesn't strike me as any different than how Lloyd handled these types of issues as well.
 
 
What the mind can conceive, the mind can achieve; and those who stay will be Champions. 
 
GO BLUE!

zjgm02
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:29 AM
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scmgoblue

I guess I interpret that as Hoke being the type of guy who is going to give the media nothing to disrupt his locker-room and staff while I imagine behind closed doors it's a different story.

Wouldn't want to disrupt that fragile locker room chemistry which Frank Clark told us--and everyone else--was terrible. The last thing Hoke should do is try something new when everything he's done in the past isn't working.
"We have to work harder."
-Brady "BRadio" Hoke during any post-game press conference in the last year.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:38 AM
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zjgm02


scmgoblue

I guess I interpret that as Hoke being the type of guy who is going to give the media nothing to disrupt his locker-room and staff while I imagine behind closed doors it's a different story.

Wouldn't want to disrupt that fragile locker room chemistry which Frank Clark told us--and everyone else--was terrible. The last thing Hoke should do is try something new when everything he's done in the past isn't working.

 
Isn't it so easy to jump on someone when he's down?  Pile on people.
 
I hope to God he makes you all eat your words!!
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zjgm02
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 12:33 PM
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UMWingedHelmet

Isn't it so easy to jump on someone when he's down?  Pile on people.

I hope to God he makes you all eat your words!!

I'd be just as happy as you if Hoke started earning his giant paycheck by winning more football games, particularly in conference. See I don't want him to fail, I just don't have any problem pointing out when he does. If that kind of pressure's too much for him, maybe he should have stayed on the west coast with all the other hippies and communists.
"We have to work harder."
-Brady "BRadio" Hoke during any post-game press conference in the last year.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:03 PM
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UMWingedHelmet


zjgm02


scmgoblue

I guess I interpret that as Hoke being the type of guy who is going to give the media nothing to disrupt his locker-room and staff while I imagine behind closed doors it's a different story.

Wouldn't want to disrupt that fragile locker room chemistry which Frank Clark told us--and everyone else--was terrible. The last thing Hoke should do is try something new when everything he's done in the past isn't working.


Isn't it so easy to jump on someone when he's down?  Pile on people.

I hope to God he makes you all eat your words!!


Who pissed in your Cheerios today? You're awfully ornery.

We all want Hoke to succeed because if he succeeds then so does Michigan football.

However, Michigan football isn't lollipops and rainbows today. No man is absolved from criticism and it's 100% justified, you've even said it yourself. Talking otherwise is ignoring reality and fooling yourself. The fact that we talk about it as much as we do means we care a sh*t-ton about this program and we want it to succeed. Do not confuse dissent with disloyalty.

Go Blue!!

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.


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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:21 PM
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If you want to criticize Hoke's game management in terms of clock issues, time out calls, when to play conservative/when to bury them. etc., then go ahead criticize or praise him based on how you assess his decisions. However, you sound idiotic when you criticize "Hoke's play-call." Brady Hoke does not call the plays on either side of the ball, and he never has before. Brady takes the approach that if it's fourth and one he makes the decision to go for it, and then it's up to his coordinators to call the plays. It's as simple as that. 
 
If you read Bo's book, Bo did the same thing as HC. You have assistant coaches and coordinators for a reason. I realize that HC's make so much money these days that it is often viewed as "their playcall" and they are the ones criticized in the media for that, but the call itself is not made by Brady nor was it made by Bo.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 2:34 PM
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Just wondering.... Phil, is this meant to be a two part article with the next section being "Why he's wrong,"

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:45 PM
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ScottsdaleBlue


UMWingedHelmet


zjgm02


scmgoblue

I guess I interpret that as Hoke being the type of guy who is going to give the media nothing to disrupt his locker-room and staff while I imagine behind closed doors it's a different story.

Wouldn't want to disrupt that fragile locker room chemistry which Frank Clark told us--and everyone else--was terrible. The last thing Hoke should do is try something new when everything he's done in the past isn't working.


Isn't it so easy to jump on someone when he's down?  Pile on people.

I hope to God he makes you all eat your words!!


Who pissed in your Cheerios today? You're awfully ornery.

We all want Hoke to succeed because if he succeeds then so does Michigan football.

However, Michigan football isn't lollipops and rainbows today. No man is absolved from criticism and it's 100% justified, you've even said it yourself. Talking otherwise is ignoring reality and fooling yourself. The fact that we talk about it as much as we do means we care a sh*t-ton about this program and we want it to succeed. Do not confuse dissent with disloyalty.

Go Blue!!

It is because I am getting old and I want to see them back on top of the B1G before I croak but I also know Brady a little (I know - Tressel and Hoke so I must be a a no-good SOB) but I still believe he deserves THIS year to turn it around.
 
If he doesn't, I will right in there calling for his resignation.  It does bother me that Dave Brandon, whom I do not care for, will carry so much weight in determining Michigan Football's future.
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 9:53 AM
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I'm past the 'he throws players under the bus' stuff (although as MF4L pointed out, he has), past the 'he doesn't call the plays', past the 'he doesn't even wear a headset during games', past the "chemistry", execution, play calling and blah, blah, blah.  It's really simple: what's your record in the conference? What's your record against your rivals? What is your bowl record?  There is plenty of data available now so these are the only questions I care about.  If you feel Hoke passes the sniff test in these areas, great.  Personally, I do not.  And I'm not even including the complete and utter lack of player development.  At the end of the day, the scoreboard doesn't lie.  

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 10:10 AM
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vixblue

Just wondering.... Phil, is this meant to be a two part article with the next section being "Why he's wrong,"

 
No 
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 10:12 AM
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I don't quite understand those of you on here rushing to Hoke's defense. Brady Hoke is a good guy & I would like to have a beer with him. However as The Arthur J Tilly Ronald McDonald Burt & Ernie Family UMHC he has been a tremendous disappointment & IMO deserves every bit of criticism he receives. I am not privy to any inside info here but I believe the Nuss hire was 100% DB, Hoke had given every indication that his wagon was hitched to Borges & that is all there was to it. But DB is smart enough to know that as goes Hoke's tenure so goes his own & he knew the ship was sinking fast & did what he could to plug the holes.
As I look at next years schedule I see an 8-4 campaign in our future, if we can win @ND maybe 9-3 at best, 10 wins is out of the question unless this team has a miracle up its sleeve. So 4 years in & we're no better off than we were at the end of RR's tenure. This is the point where you Brady backers need to decide what kind of football team you want UM to be. If you're a-ok with 8 or 9 win seasons being the high water mark then so be it, throw your full support behind Hoke & enjoy the ride. However for me an 8 or 9 win season should be an anomaly an occasional re-loading or heavy injury year not a regular occurrence. 10 win seasons & regular trips to the B1G championship game should be the expectation. Until Brady Hoke proves he can build & sustain a program to that level he will not & does not have my support.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 10:24 AM
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Some general thoughts on Hoke. 
 
I've never had the sense that he's wasn't taking responsibility for the program-- I don't think him admitting that he failed is that mush of a surprise.
 
I think the changes were (Nuss, defense re-org) great but I'm wondering if the Borges sacking was a year too late. There was a lot of unhappiness around the program about how the offense was being run last season-- and it started the previous year with how Borges mishandled Denard. 
 
This season I see another bad offensive line and a quarterback trying to learn his third offensive system. Not to mention Michigan plays all three rivals on the road...
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 11:16 AM
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Jabes0623


I don't quite understand those of you on here rushing to Hoke's defense. Brady Hoke is a good guy & I would like to have a beer with him. However as The Arthur J Tilly Ronald McDonald Burt & Ernie Family UMHC he has been a tremendous disappointment & IMO deserves every bit of criticism he receives. I am not privy to any inside info here but I believe the Nuss hire was 100% DB, Hoke had given every indication that his wagon was hitched to Borges & that is all there was to it. But DB is smart enough to know that as goes Hoke's tenure so goes his own & he knew the ship was sinking fast & did what he could to plug the holes.
As I look at next years schedule I see an 8-4 campaign in our future, if we can win @ND maybe 9-3 at best, 10 wins is out of the question unless this team has a miracle up its sleeve. So 4 years in & we're no better off than we were at the end of RR's tenure. This is the point where you Brady backers need to decide what kind of football team you want UM to be. If you're a-ok with 8 or 9 win seasons being the high water mark then so be it, throw your full support behind Hoke & enjoy the ride. However for me an 8 or 9 win season should be an anomaly an occasional re-loading or heavy injury year not a regular occurrence. 10 win seasons & regular trips to the B1G championship game should be the expectation. Until Brady Hoke proves he can build & sustain a program to that level he will not & does not have my support.

 
Your post reminds me of hearing Ohio fans bitch and moan that Earle Bruce was "9-3 every year which isn't good enough!"  Then they go out and hire John Cooper (because he beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl - a pathetic reason for hiring the coach) and they don't do really much better than when Bruce coached the team.  If you don't hire a Saban or Myer type coach, will UM really improve?  And, how many guys are like that who would come to Michigan.
 
Don Canham took a real chance by hiring Bo but he struck gold.  UM had become very apathetic  regard the football team.  I often wonder how the last 4 plus decades would have been had Bo not been hired.  Bw, the thrill of Bo beating the "invincible, greatest college team of all time" 24-12 was the greatest feeling you could ever imagine.
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 11:42 AM
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Jabes0623


I don't quite understand those of you on here rushing to Hoke's defense. Brady Hoke is a good guy & I would like to have a beer with him. However as The Arthur J Tilly Ronald McDonald Burt & Ernie Family UMHC he has been a tremendous disappointment & IMO deserves every bit of criticism he receives. I am not privy to any inside info here but I believe the Nuss hire was 100% DB, Hoke had given every indication that his wagon was hitched to Borges & that is all there was to it. But DB is smart enough to know that as goes Hoke's tenure so goes his own & he knew the ship was sinking fast & did what he could to plug the holes.
As I look at next years schedule I see an 8-4 campaign in our future, if we can win @ND maybe 9-3 at best, 10 wins is out of the question unless this team has a miracle up its sleeve. So 4 years in & we're no better off than we were at the end of RR's tenure. This is the point where you Brady backers need to decide what kind of football team you want UM to be. If you're a-ok with 8 or 9 win seasons being the high water mark then so be it, throw your full support behind Hoke & enjoy the ride. However for me an 8 or 9 win season should be an anomaly an occasional re-loading or heavy injury year not a regular occurrence. 10 win seasons & regular trips to the B1G championship game should be the expectation. Until Brady Hoke proves he can build & sustain a program to that level he will not & does not have my support.

 
So essentially: "once they start winning then I'll be on board".  Awesome.
 
Am I the only one who thinks it is a bad idea to put the program back in the same position it was in after the Rodriguez era?  First of all, ok, lets say you fire Hoke in the winter... who, exactly, are you hiring?  Harbaugh? Yeah sure...  Who steps in and keeps the team together?  Who on the staff are you wanting to keep? If you're dumping position coaches who fills those spots?  Is this team in any kind of a position to weather a mass exodus of talent?  No, it isn't.  I never see anybody say, "Hoke should be fired, and then we can bring in X, Y, and Z which will allow us to do A, B, and C".
 
I look at what Hoke inherited when he arrived and recall distinctly thinking that this would be a five year project at least; lots of seniors in '11 and then a chasm of youth behind them.  He walked into absolutely huge holes at positions of need, and now those holes are now coming home to roost in the form of youth and inexperience on the field.  The recruiting classes have been anywhere from solid to spectacular since Hoke arrived, he took a team that couldn't beat a .500 B1G team in 3 years and won a BCS bowl (quick, since he's such a disappointment, tell me when we last won a BCS bowl before that).  Quite frankly, I don't know what to tell anyone who didn't learn their lesson about dumping a coach/staff too early after the last go-round.  Yes I was disappointed in last year's results, I think we also have to recognize that we had HOW MANY first and second year players on that team?  For the first time in years we actually have consistency on this football team and some experience, we are finally at the point where we can build off a base of players developing within the same system, I happen to think that's worth something.
 
You believe the Nuss hire was 100% DB?  Based upon what?  You yourself said you were not privy to any inside info, so based upon your general gestalt you think the coach who came out and stated that they needed to do better after firing his coordinator was actually forced to do so by the AD?  
 
I'm completely fine with giving Hoke nothing less than five years and at that point judging him exactly on what TK stated: Ws and Ls.  I will never understand the line of thinking that "demands" success that a program hasn't seen in nearly a decade, just because.  I think he has established a base of talent here along with a staff that has the ability to return the program to where we all want it to be.  This season will be the first in YEARS that we actually have something called depth at nearly all positions.  I continue to be amazed at the number of people who seem to forget exactly how deep of a hole this program was in after '08-'10 when they go on rants about expectations and the like.
 
This whole, "10 wins is THE expectation" stuff... Since the end of the Schembechler era, Michigan has won 10 or more games eight times in 23 seasons, 34.7% of the time.  I get it, I know it sounds good, but to say THIS IS THE EXPECTATION the product has to be there on the field.  Do I think this team can win 10 games?  Yeah, I actually do.  I think we'll have a good to great defense that is going to let the offense find it's feet as the year goes on.  Have we had a team capable of winning 10 games these last few years?  I don't think we have.  I want us to play to our potential, I want to see us improve as the year progresses, and I damn sure want to see us start evening things up with our rivals.  At the end when the dust settles, then we can evaluate, but to sit here in April and say "X WINS OR HIS HEAD" is a bridge too far in my opinion.  
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 11:51 AM
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Well look who is back! Always like reading your posts.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 1:01 PM
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@UM & @SCM I fully supported Hoke in year 1-2.5 but at some point in the middle of season 2 I started seeing this team regress, I started to see bad body language, I started to see indifference in players acting the same whether they were winning by 20 or losing by 20. I started seeing excuses being made, I started seeing failure accepted, I started seeing leadership issues. I know nothing about your guys backgrounds so maybe you've never been a part of a large organization, but everything has a trickle down effect from the top. Well lead organizations perform well & progress, conversely poorly lead organizations perform poorly & regress.
I'm not a UM insider, I'm just a fan observing from afar. Sometimes I think some of you can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe DB is the true root of all the problem, from what I understand he's all over the program, but someone else will have to speak to that. What I do know is plenty of other coaches have walked into far worse jobs, with far less talent, & far fewer resources & found a way to build a consistent & progressive program. Brady Hoke has built a dysfunctional regressing program that not only isn't better off today than it was the day he took the job 4ish years ago it's worse off. It's not a win & I'll support you situation, it's a do things the right way & I'll support you situation.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 2:22 PM
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scmgoblue




So essentially: "once they start winning then I'll be on board".  Awesome.

Am I the only one who thinks it is a bad idea to put the program back in the same position it was in after the Rodriguez era?  First of all, ok, lets say you fire Hoke in the winter... who, exactly, are you hiring?  Harbaugh? Yeah sure...  Who steps in and keeps the team together?  Who on the staff are you wanting to keep? If you're dumping position coaches who fills those spots?  Is this team in any kind of a position to weather a mass exodus of talent?  No, it isn't.  I never see anybody say, "Hoke should be fired, and then we can bring in X, Y, and Z which will allow us to do A, B, and C".

I look at what Hoke inherited when he arrived and recall distinctly thinking that this would be a five year project at least; lots of seniors in '11 and then a chasm of youth behind them.  He walked into absolutely huge holes at positions of need, and now those holes are now coming home to roost in the form of youth and inexperience on the field.  The recruiting classes have been anywhere from solid to spectacular since Hoke arrived, he took a team that couldn't beat a .500 B1G team in 3 years and won a BCS bowl (quick, since he's such a disappointment, tell me when we last won a BCS bowl before that).  Quite frankly, I don't know what to tell anyone who didn't learn their lesson about dumping a coach/staff too early after the last go-round.  Yes I was disappointed in last year's results, I think we also have to recognize that we had HOW MANY first and second year players on that team?  For the first time in years we actually have consistency on this football team and some experience, we are finally at the point where we can build off a base of players developing within the same system, I happen to think that's worth something.

You believe the Nuss hire was 100% DB?  Based upon what?  You yourself said you were not privy to any inside info, so based upon your general gestalt you think the coach who came out and stated that they needed to do better after firing his coordinator was actually forced to do so by the AD?  

I'm completely fine with giving Hoke nothing less than five years and at that point judging him exactly on what TK stated: Ws and Ls.  I will never understand the line of thinking that "demands" success that a program hasn't seen in nearly a decade, just because.  I think he has established a base of talent here along with a staff that has the ability to return the program to where we all want it to be.  This season will be the first in YEARS that we actually have something called depth at nearly all positions.  I continue to be amazed at the number of people who seem to forget exactly how deep of a hole this program was in after '08-'10 when they go on rants about expectations and the like.

This whole, "10 wins is THE expectation" stuff... Since the end of the Schembechler era, Michigan has won 10 or more games eight times in 23 seasons, 34.7% of the time.  I get it, I know it sounds good, but to say THIS IS THE EXPECTATION the product has to be there on the field.  Do I think this team can win 10 games?  Yeah, I actually do.  I think we'll have a good to great defense that is going to let the offense find it's feet as the year goes on.  Have we had a team capable of winning 10 games these last few years?  I don't think we have.  I want us to play to our potential, I want to see us improve as the year progresses, and I damn sure want to see us start evening things up with our rivals.  At the end when the dust settles, then we can evaluate, but to sit here in April and say "X WINS OR HIS HEAD" is a bridge too far in my opinion.  

I agree whole heatedly with you on the fire Hoke rhetoric and said as much when many on this board were calling for his head after 3 years. I`m at least willing to give the man another year to play with upperclassmen he and his staff recruited. I`m also with you when it comes to if not Hoke who? Everyone is quick to fire without thinking through who the available replacements are. We've gone through 2 searches ourselves that were both complete disasters from a process standpoint. Even a school like Texas, which is quite possibly the best job in American, had to "settle" for their 4th or 5th choice. Everyone thinks they're going to land Gruden or somebody but very rarely does it happen that you make the home run hire (Ohio State landing Meyer is one of the few exceptions).
 
I will say that I would feel a lot better about the shape of Michigan football if I could see actual progress being made. I agree that Hoke took over a dumpster fire. I don't blame or judge him for what he inherited. The issue is what have you done since taking over and how much progress have you made. I don't just look at wins and losses because a lot goes into that including the roster you inherited, though they do factor in. When I look at everything in total (W/L, production/stats, development, recruiting, pro-production, interest, etc) I don't see significant progress. Not the kind that makes me think, Hoke is definitely THE guy. After 3-4 years you would at least like to know that. Does that mean we should fire Hoke, I won't go that far because of many of the things above. At the same time I can't bury my head and sand with a Brady Hoke t-shirt on and act like all is well.
 
I fundamentally don't believe that all is well and there are many factors for why I believe that. Our W/L record has progressively gotten worse when it should be getting better. Our production across the board has either stagnated or regressed. I struggle come to up with an aspect of our team that is better now, entering year 4 than it was in 2011. Our running game is worse, our passing game is worse, our blocking is worse, our ability to get to the passer is worse, our run D is worse, our secondary is worse. On and on it goes when what you'd like to see if progress is being made is a steady increase in those areas. The lack of development is the most disappointed area IMO. I can live with losing games, not happy about it but there's nothing worse than units and individual players not developing. Hoke and Co recruited like gang busters at the beginning of the tenure (those recruiting wins have slowed beginning last year and going into the start of this year) but the end product 3 years later is not where it should be. We took 7 defensive linemen in the class of 2012, 3 years later we head into the year without a single one of them destined to make the preseason All-Big 10 team. The same is true for the offensive line where we took 4 linemen in the 2012 class, none of whom will be on the All-Conference team at the start of the year. Now there's still time, we haven't played the season yet but normally you get flashes of elite ability in a player's early seasons not just a sudden All-American (if a guy hasn't played that's different). There are very few players who I can honestly say have made significant progress during their time over the last 3 years, entering into this year. That goes from Devin Gardner and Kyle Kalis on down the line to guys like Blake Countess and Mario Ojemudia. Could they suddenly pop and turn into all-conference performers sure, but that's not something I would consider a realistic expectation for most.
 
It's a lack of progress thing for me. If we can't after 4 years expect to have significant progress and championship contender when exactly should we? That's especially true when your head coach CONSTANTLY prattles on about winning championships and how the season is a failure if we don't reach that goal. Brady Hoke has set the bar for what he expects, why should we judge him on anything less? Especially 4 years in, facing what is probably the weakest Big 10 conference in 30+ years (incidentally, which is why Meyer has run off a 24-1 record the last 2 years)
 
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Friday, April 25, 2014 3:50 PM
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Very fine analysis, MF4L.
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Saturday, April 26, 2014 10:27 AM
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I can see both camps (SCM and MF4L) and don't disagree with either but the one thing MF4L points out that is my biggest concern is the player development.  Looking back the past 3 years you'd be hard pressed to name one player that has gotten better and better ea. year with the possible exception of Jeremy Gallon.  Lewan was all-everything but I actually think he regressed his last year, as did Gardner, as did D-Rob, even Jake Ryan seems to have hit a plateau when it seemed like he'd be a monster. (I know the injury set him back so I should probably hold off throwing him in here.)  Point being, I'm not seeing it anywhere on the field which starts to make recruiting rankings irrelevant because while attracting talent is great you still need to do something with it.  For that reason I'm not sold on Hoke-not even close.  But I am willing to wait and see a while longer. (or at least until we get manhandled by Sparty again next year.) 

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Saturday, April 26, 2014 10:37 AM
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I'll play along too. We all know Hoke is a CEO coach, he's not an X's and O's type coach on either side of the ball. However, he did coach the DL last year.
 
With that said, is it on Hoke that the players haven't developed or is it on the position coaches who spend every day with them?
 
Or, is it still on Hoke because he's the CEO of the whole operation and if he sees a lack of player development then it's his job to rectify the situation and tell the coaches he's not getting enough out of them and the players.
 
If Hoke doesn't see that there's an issue with player development, do we really trust him to be able to run our program? I mean, if he can't see that...
 
And if it's still on Hoke, do we think he's the type of coach to get up in another coaches face (do our coaches on our staff fear Hoke, do they respect him?). Does Hoke command a room when he walks in?
 
I ask these questions because I don't know. He could do all these things, but I have yet to see them so let's start the discussion...
 
Go Blue!!
 

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Saturday, April 26, 2014 10:50 AM
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For me, it's 100% on the coach.  Nobody fires the first baseman but they always fire the manager.  And yes, the responsibility for player development definitely has to ride with the asst. coaches but ultimately, who hired them?  So who should ultimately be accountable?  There's a reason he gets the big bucks so to whom much is given, much is expected. (I'm trying to see how many cliches I can fold into one post ;)  I look at my own job.  I went to my boss and told him I needed to hire another experienced field installer this week (these are 6 figure guys in my profession) and he readily agreed but said, "He's on you.  I expect you to pay for him".  Not a problem and I wouldn't have it any other way.  It certainly creates more pressure for me but that just comes with the dinner.  In the end it's the man in the corner office because a real leader accepts full responsibility for failure and shares the successes with the team.  (not saying Hoke hasn't done either but I wanted to end on another cliche ;)

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Saturday, April 26, 2014 11:40 AM
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TK23Blue

In the end it's the man in the corner office because a real leader accepts full responsibility for failure and shares the successes with the team.  (not saying Hoke hasn't done either but I wanted to end on another cliche ;)

That's just it, though--it's the opposite of what happens.  Brandon's in the corner office.  He completely botched the timing of RR's firing and search for his replacement, he seems to have alienated many STH--including the owner of this site--but he's still sitting pretty on top of the UM bank vault.  Hoke's UM teams have performed worse the longer he's coached them, so he fired--or was forced to fire--a guy many people thought should've been gone a year earlier, buying himself at least one more year.  Ultimately, the buck stops with those two dopes (we hope), but not before plenty of others are thrown under the bus (players included) and/or fired. 
 
I don't even know that Hoke should be fired b/c Brandon would likely just screw the pooch again looking for a replacement like a guy reaching for the phone without his glasses, but when the usual cast of characters posts their mindless "support the coach", "one more year, this time we mean it" schlock, it just gets old.  My guess is many of them will be posting the same thing a year from now with a new list of excuses the coach has given them during his interviews.  
 
Leaders and Best is just a marketing gimmick for this program right now.
"We have to work harder."
-Brady "BRadio" Hoke during any post-game press conference in the last year.

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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Saturday, April 26, 2014 1:54 PM
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SDB - you asked if Brady commanded respect when he enters a room. I went to the HOF luncheon in Canton this past Monday and when he walked in, everyone quit talking and waited for him to be seated. When he began addressing the crowd you could virtually hear a pin drop.

He was treated very well for being in "enemy territory."

Yes, I would most certainly say he commands respect when entering a room.
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Re:Michigan Football: Brady Hoke Admits to a Failure of Leadership, Why He's Right - Saturday, April 26, 2014 5:05 PM
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Is that because he is the head coach of the winningest program in NCAA history or because he stands on his own merit. I imagine that whatever ones political affiliation is, if Obama walked into a room everyone would be quite as well

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