Borseth back to Green Bay?

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UMMMM
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Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 4:53 PM
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argh...
 
Think positive, think positive.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:02 PM
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mgoblue.com has this as a "resignation"--Borseth Resigns to Accept Wisconsin-Green Bay Coaching Position--but I have to wonder if Brandon was really planning to bring Borseth back.
 
Any chance Dawn Plitzuweit gets the job? (She's still on the Michigan coaching staff page.) I'd rather see some continuity here in order to keep the current players and future recruits onboard. Hiring someone from outside could mean yet another major rebuilding job.

Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:13 PM
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IMO not a chance Plitzuweit gets it.  Next year's class is already signed and plenty of time to establish relationships with the junior recruits.  A home run pick would be Gail Goestenkors.  Brandon would have to break the bank but getting a HR pick is his style.  She has roots with the state of Michigan and is a great friend of Hutch.  Stay tuned.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:18 PM
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It doesn't matter that next year's class is already signed. Whenever there's a coaching change, players will almost always have a chance to be released from their LOI and go elsewhere (as Nicole Elmblad did). Even if a school refuses to release them from their LOI, players can still transfer to another school and sit out a year.

gtodoroff
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:36 PM
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Hope that the U learns something about coaching staffs....you give a good coach the security that they deserve and you give him the ability to provide the same for his staff.  I think it's a blow to a program that was moving up.

Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:38 PM
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I would never keep an assistant coach just to retain a recruiting class,  especially one that is has two of its top recruits coming off knee injuries.  Granted a school can release recruits but that's at the school's option.  I have nothing against Dawn but this is an opportunity to hit a HR and a HR hire will keep the people they want in the class.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:57 PM
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I'm not suggesting that she get the job only to keep the recruiting class together. She's the associate head coach--not an assistant--and has prior head coaching experience. And it's not like the program is in a shambles right now, and there's a need to completely clean house. If she's interested in the job, she should be given serious consideration.
 
And there's no guarantee a "HR hire" will keep people onboard. New outside coaches almost always lead to defections.

Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:09 PM
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And there's no guarantee that there wouldn't be defections with Dawn returning.  Just my opinion but I'd be shocked if she were hired. There's been plenty of buzz out there about problems on the team which is probably why there were no reports of Borseth being offered a new contract or any public endorsement of Borseth by Brandon. I'm sure he read the handwriting on the wall and the timing was right to go back to Green Bay.  Under those circumstances Brandon is going to look to make his own mark and not retain anyone from the old staff.  Just my opinion. 

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:08 PM
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So, was Borseth tired of waiting for the contract extension that never came, or was Michigan too late in offering to keep him, or was this a "win-win" for all involved as Michigan wasn't planning on keeping him anyway?

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:30 PM
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gtodoroff


Hope that the U learns something about coaching staffs....you give a good coach the security that they deserve and you give him the ability to provide the same for his staff.  I think it's a blow to a program that was moving up.

 
My assumption is that they were waiting for the team to make it into the NCAAs before offering the extension. He may have decided that it was too long to wait.
 
In a very curious turn, Lisa Savory, who Kevin hired as his first DBO at Michigan is now his boss.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:35 PM
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So, Frank, suddenly there was "plenty of buzz out there about problems on the team"? I don't recall you ever mentioning that before, and in fact I can't recall anyone claiming that in this forum.
 
By the way, Goestenkors had a $1.25 million a year contract at Texas. What was Borseth making--a quarter of that? I'm a bit skeptical that Brandon is going to be willing to make a "home run" hire for women's basketball if it's going to take that kind of a salary.

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:46 PM
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Michigan turned down Goestenkors as a player. Then Goestenkors turned down Michigan for a lack of money as a coach. Michigan hired (and then fired) one of her best friends. She says she's tired and needs a break. I don't see her coming here.
 
The turn of events looks like bad timing. Other schools who had openings a month ago are well on the way to making hires or have hired. I hope that Michigan doesn't lose out on the best candidates because they're late to the table.
 
 

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:48 PM
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mzonefan

So, was Borseth tired of waiting for the contract extension that never came, or was Michigan too late in offering to keep him, or was this a "win-win" for all involved as Michigan wasn't planning on keeping him anyway?

 
Mzonefan, you would probably know this better than anyone given how familiar you are with women's basketball nationally: If Brandon wasn't planning on bringing Borseth back, wouldn't he have already fired him and started his coaching search? It seems like this is a little late to be making a change.
 
Also, it doesn't appear that this was in fact the final year of Borseth's contract. I found this page with a portion of a Free Press article that says the contract was for six years. Is it possible Brandon wanted to bring Borseth back for the sixth year without a contract extension and then make a decision on an extension after next season? If so, I wouldn't blame Borseth one bit for saying forget that and grabbing his old job back once it became available.
 
And a side note to Frank: that Free Press article shows Borseth's salary at $300,000 a year, which is in fact one-quarter of what Goestenkors was making at Texas.

UMMMM
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:10 PM
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In one of the first press announcements I read from the Green Bay side, (can't remember which one)  it was stated that Borseth had already been discussing the move as early as last year when Bollant was being considered for the Illini job.  Coach Borseth was and is a family first guy.  Its my guess that the B1G pressure was more than he wished to bear.  I think this was his own decision.  I understand the team banquet is postponed too.

Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:12 PM
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The "buzz" I refer to didn't come from this board but from the moderators of a premium board who said several parents were outwardly critical of Borseth after recent games and he was in danger of losing the team.   The source is very credible and I didn't know this was an issue until late in the season.  
    As for Goestenkors, I just put that name out there as a possible home run pick.  She won't get $1.2 million in her next job no matter where she goes, but she probably won't demand it either.  That being said, I have no reason to believe she's interested.
 
PS.
Goestenkors apparently made about $400K at Duke.
 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003650414_whoop04.html
<message edited by Frank99 on Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:37 PM>

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:43 PM
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It's interesting that you found the 6 year comment. I dug for that info some time ago and could only find "multi-year". The five year term was info I got from a friend who knows people on staff.

I would have thought that the decision would have been made by now, too. With the idea that this was year 5 out of 6, that changes the score.

I was around some of the parents at the Big Ten, but I didn't hear any negativity like I used to with the last two coaches. I don't know the team well anymore, so it could have easily just gone over my head.


gtodoroff
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 9:09 PM
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Term was not six years....Men's coach with similar success got an extension much earlier (and I know it wasn't from Brandon), but it has to do with how you run a program.  Year to year for a head coach, no security for staff...what can you bring.  I know Hoke said "This is Michigan, for God's sake", but a head coach can't keep staff or get the best when you don't know if you'll be there next year.  Women's sports just doesn't get the respect or the credit they deserve by the U (my U) which I don't understand.

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 9:44 PM
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McCabe says one year left on the contract, and Dawn is a candidate at WMU. http://www.freep.com/arti...opnews%7Ctext%7CSports


On several occasions Borseth said he did not understand the depths the U-M program had sunk to before taking the job. He expected to quickly turn around the program that had won only four Big Ten games in the three seasons before he became coach.

Instead, it was a struggle to earn an NCAA bid, which seemed to be automatic at Green Bay.

But there appeared to be tension between Brandon and Borseth. Assistant coach and recruiting coordinator Tianna Kirkland, who seemed content with her job earlier this year, suddenly was no longer with the program.

At Borseth’s introductory news conference five years ago, U-M also introduced Dawn Plitzuweit, who played for Borseth at Michigan Tech, as the associate head coach. Former AD Bill Martin suggested that Plitzuweit eventually could replace Borseth, but that appears unlikely now. Plitzuweit is a candidate for the vacant position at Western Michigan.
<message edited by mzonefan on Wednesday, April 04, 2012 9:45 PM>

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 9:53 PM
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http://www.detroitnews.co...-Green-Bay?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports

Goricki names possible candidates:

As for Michigan, the search will start. Waterford native Gail Goestenkors is available after stepping down last month at Texas.

Goestenkors, who attended Saginaw Valley State, guided Duke to seven consecutive 30-win seasons (2000-07), including four Final Four appearances and spots in two national title games, losing to Purdue in 1999 and Maryland in 2006. She didn't have the same type of success at Texas, advancing to the NCAA tournament each of her five years, losing in the second round her first season and failing to advance past the first round the last four years.

If Goestenkors in unavailable, Brandon could look to Flint native Coquese Washington, who guided Penn State to the Big Ten regular-season title and a spot in the Sweet 16. She was named Big Ten coach of the year.

If Brandon wants to look close to home, Eastern Michigan's AnnMarie Gilbert and Detroit Mercy's Autumn Rademacher are strong candidates.

Gilbert, who was an assistant at Michigan State under Joanne McCallie when the Spartans reached the national championship game in 2005, led Eastern Michigan to the Mid-American Conference title this season.

Rademacher led Detroit to the Horizon League championship game, losing to Green Bay.


Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 9:55 PM
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I wonder how much Borseth's blow up press conference after a game a couple of years ago turned off Brandon.  I don't think he was AD then but he certainly saw it.  Don't think it played well with some of the higher ups.
 
I don't think Gilbert will be a candidate since  she had some compliance issues over practice time.
 
http://www.washtenawvoice.com/2010/10/emu-womens-hoops-imposes-punishment-for-team-violations/
<message edited by Frank99 on Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:02 PM>

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:02 PM
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Goricki is nuts if he thinks AnnMarie Gilbert has any chance at the job. She committed four major violations at EMU.

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:09 PM
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It didn't "play well" with a lot of us. That incident and some thrown clipboards left me wondering how we had such a poor representative on the sidelines. That being said, I think he improved over the years, and I finally started getting past the rough start.

Borseth never seemed to like the community piece. He didn't want a booster club, and his SID would "protect" him from well wishing fans post-game. Guevara and Burnett both understood the community piece very well. I'd like to see some of that come back.

There was a piece on ESPN last week about the Big 12 WBB development. It talked a lot about the ambassador coaches: http://espn.go.com/espnw/...747465/hoops-heartland


Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:12 PM
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I'd be surprised if Coquese Washington would leave PSU.  She's got a good thing going there with no particular ties to UM.  I suppose $$$ might do it, but I doubt we'd get in a bidding war over her.

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:19 PM
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Frank99


I'd be surprised if Coquese Washington would leave PSU.  She's got a good thing going there with no particular ties to UM.  I suppose $$$ might do it, but I doubt we'd get in a bidding war over her.


It would be strange to jump from one Big 10 to another. Versyp only did it for her alma mater. Co doesn't have ties to U-M, but she's a Flint native.

I wouldn't want Gilbert near the program. Anyone who takes a major suspension from her school (because she didn't know the rules..yeah right) doesnt need to be considered.

Rademacher coached under Borseth. She doesn't have a stellar resume, and she's coaching her alma mater now.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:39 AM
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I didn't have that much of a problem with Borseth's press conference tirade or his demeanor on the sidelines. At least he showed he cared deeply about winning and wasn't going to let the culture of losing that had infested the program under his predecessor continue.
 
McCabe's comment about "tension" between Borseth and Brandon was interesting. It seemed pretty clear to me that Brandon wasn't exactly fully behind Borseth when he didn't even show up for Senior Night. Contrast that with his ubiquitous presence at the men's basketball Senior Night. It's one thing to dis a coach who you didn't hire and are perhaps thinking about replacing; but the AD should at least make time to honor the seniors with his presence for that one game.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:57 AM
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Michigan Daily: Borseth resigns, takes old position at Wisconsin-Green Bay
 

The resignation came as a shock to the players, who were unaware of the situation before the meeting.
 
“Absolutely speechless. Can't control my emotions right now ... wow,” junior forward Sam Arnold tweeted after the meeting.

 
Arnold also tweeted:
 
 

I want to wish Coach Borseth the best and thank him for everything. He's an amazing coach and an even better person!
 
Coach Borseth is definitely an extremely influential person in my life!

 
 

Jerrybear
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:26 AM
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dammit! dammit dammit DAMMIT!
i really really REALLY hope this does not lead to a bunch of player attrition, because IMO that may have been the main reason Cheryl Burnett did so poorly in her four years at Michigan. There were back-to-back recruiting classes that in two seasons dwindled from eight players to just one (Kelly Helvey) and this left Burnett's teams for the most part VERY short on experience and numbers.
dammit...why, Kevin, WHY???? you were making great progress here with greater things to come. i am VERY disappointed that you are QUITTING on the Michigan program. i just hope that whoever replaces you will still have enough players to not have to do a complete rebuild.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:48 AM
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Jerry, I agree with you on the concern about attrition, but come on, how can you say definitively that Borseth quit on the program? Isn't it just as possible that the AD wouldn't support him with a contract extension, so he felt it was time to leave, especially when a very tempting job opened up? I don't blame him at all for returning to Green Bay instead of coming back next year as a lame duck. Contrast the lack of support from the AD and a Michigan fan base that never fully embraced him with the comments I've seen from Green Bay fans, who seem thrilled to have him back.

3ball
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:50 AM
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yes,once again coaches run away.and land on their feet. When a players signs with a school,the coaches always talk about commitment that players need. Coaches that leave for selfish reasons set a poor example.I feel sorry for the current players,especially next yrs seniors. Coaches leave a trail of wreckage when they act  of wanting to only think of themselves. YES I"M VERY UPSET! .Kevin you have left a group of young ladies with a pain that soon won't go away. You can release all the press statements you want...You ran out the back door on a group of young players who were looking forward to the best yrs..  

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:00 PM
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Escanaba Daily Press: Barnes is on the move again: Escanaba native seeks new job in wake of Borseth's departure from Michigan
 
John Barnes confirms that Borseth had a six-year deal at Michigan and says they were working on a three-year extension:

He was not shocked by Borseth's decision, even though they had not talked about the potential move.
 
"Green Bay is an outstanding program, a top 20 program," said Barnes. "Michigan is working to get there. It is a place he and his family loved and I believe where his heart is. They really love the community, not that they didn't here.
 
"The biggest shock to me was Michigan was working on a three-year (contract) extension on top of the year he had. To give that up is kind of surprising, but he's not in it for the money. He loves to coach."

 
The last part of this paragraph was interesting:

Barnes is disappointed he will not be part of Michigan's effort to get where UWGB has been, a perennial contender. The Wolverines have already signed Miss Basketball of Michigan, Madison Ristovski, and Barnes said they have an excellent chance to sign the (potential) next Miss Basketball.

I'm guessing this might be a reference to Haleigh Ristovski.
 
Also of interest:

While Barnes will apply for the UM vacancy, he does not think his chances are strong. "I think they are going to want someone who is a big name, an established Division 1 head coach with a very successful record," he said.
 
He also believes freshman guard Nicole Elmblad of St. Ignace will remain at Michigan. Barnes had signed her to a Wisconsin scholarship but she switched to Michigan after he was released from that contract. "She always wanted to be at Michigan, no matter who the coach was. She wants the education there," he said.

 
<message edited by Raoul on Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:01 PM>

Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:07 PM
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Raoul


Jerry, I agree with you on the concern about attrition, but come on, how can you say definitively that Borseth quit on the program? Isn't it just as possible that the AD wouldn't support him with a contract extension, so he felt it was time to leave, especially when a very tempting job opened up? I don't blame him at all for returning to Green Bay instead of coming back next year as a lame duck. Contrast the lack of support from the AD and a Michigan fan base that never fully embraced him with the comments I've seen from Green Bay fans, who seem thrilled to have him back.

I think this is completely correct.  Brandon doesn't hesitate to push people out the door if he's not completely happy with them.  Many, many people in the athletic department infrastructure have quietly disappeared.  Absent an endorsement by Brandon, Borseth probably sensed that his fate would have been much like Steve Burns in soccer--final four one year, gone the next.  I can't blame him, especially when he's got 5 kids at home.  He's got to look after his own interests.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:07 PM
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On what I hope is not a related note, an EMU press release: EMU Head Women's Basketball Coach AnnMarie Gilbert Resigns
The release says the NCAA investigation of the program is "still ongoing."


Frank99
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:16 PM
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The above article from the Escanaba paper sort of douses some of my theories on what was going on--if it's accurate.  I guess none of us really know the whole story and we're all in the realm of speculation.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:31 PM
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Frank99

The above article from the Escanaba paper sort of douses some of my theories on what was going on--if it's accurate.  I guess none of us really know the whole story and we're all in the realm of speculation.

 
I agree--it's usually almost impossible for outsiders to know for certain what actually happened when these sorts of things occur.
 
But to speculate a bit more, even if Brandon was willing give Borseth an extension, that might not have been enough to make Borseth feel truly wanted at Michigan and feel like he a had a safe job for the long haul. Or maybe the negotiations hit a snag right at the point when the Green Bay job opened up, and Borseth decided to jump at the opportunity to return to a place where he felt more at home.
 
Also, I'll partially retract something I said earlier--it seems not all Green Bay fans are fully onboard with Borseth's return. See this thread from the Phear The Phoenix fan site (I think it's only fitting to link to the thread given that someone in that thread linked to this one).

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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 2:08 PM
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annarbor.com: Michigan women's basketball coach Kevin Borseth resigns, heads back to Green Bay
 
See the comments--at least I'm not the only person who believes Coach Plitzuweit should be given a shot at the job.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 3:59 PM
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From what Borseth has said at his introductory press conference (streaming here), he just wasn't very happy at Michigan, and he relishes the chance to return to the place he considers "home."
 
Maybe Brandon really did him want to stay long term. Who knows?

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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 6:33 PM
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annarbor.com: Kevin Borseth couldn't find happiness at Michigan, is back 'home' at Wisconsin-Green Bay
   

Borseth had only kind words for Michigan, but said the job may have been too consuming.
 
"That walk of life didn’t fit me very well," Borseth said of the Michigan program that he led to the NCAA Tournament for the first time since 2001. "As a result, it evidently showed in my happiness, because that’s what my wife (Connie) said. She said 'You’re not happy.' One of my daughters said, ‘That’s what I pray for. For you to be happy.’ That was an eye-opening statement for me."

   
I find it hard to begrudge someone leaving a job making him so unhappy. I hope he finds happiness by returning "home" and wish him nothing but the best of luck.

Raoul
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 7:06 PM
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The Green Bay Press-Gazette posted a full video of Borseth's press conference here.

mzonefan
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Re:Borseth back to Green Bay? - Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:13 PM
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After watching that video, I believe that this was the best decision for all involved. The guy was reduced to tears when talking about happiness and being close to family support. Check in around the 14:30 mark.