For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings

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EFWolverine

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For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Wednesday, January 01, 2014 9:11 PM (permalink)
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MSU:
 
DE: Marcus Rush, 5.6 3* (whom RR passed on)

DE: Shilique Calhoun, 5.5 3* with Big East offers

DT: Micajah Reynolds, 5.5 3* OL with MAC offers

DT: Tyler Hoover, 5.7 3* who had a Michigan "offer" that was no longer on the table when he picked State

LB: Denicos Allen, 5.6 3* with decent B1G offers (Iowa, Wisky, PSU)

LB: Taiwan Jones, 5.7 3* with MAC offers + Indiana and Purdue

LB: Max Bullough, 5.8 4* with great offers (Stanford, ND), or...Elsworth today, a walk-on

CB: Darqueze Dennard, 5.4 2* with offers from Utah State and MTSU; discovered by MSU by accident

CB: Trae Waynes, 5.4 2*, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois

S: Isaiah Lewis, 5.8 4*, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue, Kentucky, etc.

S: Kurtis Drummond, 5.6 3*, listed a Michigan offer but both sides cooled if I recall correctly; other offers were schools like BC, Cincinnati, Indiana.

Other contributors include:

DE Denzel Drone, 5.5 3*
DT Damon Knox, 5.5 3*
LB Ed Davis, 5.7 3*
LB Damien Harris, 5.7 3*

 
#1
Maize927

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Wednesday, January 01, 2014 9:17 PM (permalink)
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Sparty's defensive success comes from scheme (aggressive and rarely play off receivers) + player development....essentially the opposite of what we do.
 
#2
jsj_297

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Wednesday, January 01, 2014 9:18 PM (permalink)
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So their 2 CBs are both 2* guys? Jeez! I really hope narduzzi gets some hc Jo. Looks soon.......
 
#3
andyum

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Wednesday, January 01, 2014 9:34 PM (permalink)
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All the more impressive. Other than the name on the front of their jerseys it is hard not to admire how they play the game.
 
#4
wingedtipped66

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Wednesday, January 01, 2014 9:59 PM (permalink)
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We haven't had an attacking scheme since 97 and in reality without Charles we still would've been passive. Not since McCartney's d have we had cahones
"Every time I come to Michigan all they want to do is Screw me, Screw me Screw me"! Wayne Hayes AKA the devil.
 
#5
MichFan4Life

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Wednesday, January 01, 2014 10:02 PM (permalink)
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I'll still take as many 4s and 5s as possible and develop them. Dantonio has done a GREAT job of player development and the defensive unit is extremely well coached.
 
"Only the good ones come to Michigan"
-Dennis Franklin
 
#6
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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:35 AM (permalink)
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I've already has this argument on here.  MSU's staff is so vastly superior it's not even a discussion anymore.
 
#7
ScottsdaleBlue

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:40 AM (permalink)
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As MichFan said in another thread; I would still take 4-5 star kids all day long and twice on Sunday. Just imagine what Dantonio and Narduzzi would do with those kids...it's about player development and messaging to your team, something we lack.
 
Go Blue!!
 

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.

 
#8
TK23Blue

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:53 AM (permalink)
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But that's not the question.  Of course we'd take 4 and 5 star guys.  But if I had their staff and all I got was 2 and 3 star guys and all I did was win championships?  I wouldn't care about 4 and 5 star guys anymore, that's for sure.
 
#9
ScottsdaleBlue

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:01 AM (permalink)
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Agreed. There's no need to mess around with primadonnas when you can get lower level talent and develop them into high level talent.
 
Someone needs to take our privileged and entitled talent and kick their asses.
 
Go Blue!!
 

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.

 
#10
vixblue

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:59 AM (permalink)
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If Dave Brandon watched the Rose Bowl, I would hope he saw how desperately we need coaching changes.  Alas, I think he was probably still basking in the glow of the winter classic and probably didn't watch any college football yesterday. 
 
#11
MichFan4Life

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 11:59 AM (permalink)
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If they had their choice, Dantonio and Narduzzi would have a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids. They offer and heavily recruit them just like everyone else.

The key is still development. If we bothered to developed our kids we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
"Only the good ones come to Michigan"
-Dennis Franklin
 
#12
UMWolverine5

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:04 PM (permalink)
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MichFan4Life


If they had their choice, Dantonio and Narduzzi would have a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids. They offer and heavily recruit them just like everyone else.

The key is still development. If we bothered to developed our kids we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 
Bingo. If a 2-star is developed well, and a 5-star is developed well, and they go head-to-head, the 2-star stands no chance. Talent over everything, but if it's undeveloped it means nothing.

"Character wins in life and character wins on the football field." — Michigan coach Brady Hoke. 
 
#13
MgoBrett

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:35 PM (permalink)
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Every chance Dantonio got yesterday on national tv and the BTN he was constantly talking indirectly to his possible recruits. It was brilliant.
 
#14
uneek1

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 1:20 PM (permalink)
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Stars dont matter because its all opinionated. What seems to be the theme and I agree is development. UM is not doing well in that dept. There are tons of guys that have no stars and become talented players due to hard work and coaching. Coaches def shoulder the blame on this and if Hoke isnt willing to change them then another long season for fans and a short stay in AA for the Hoke family.
 
#15
MichFan4Life

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 1:31 PM (permalink)
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uneek1


Stars dont matter because its all opinionated. What seems to be the theme and I agree is development. UM is not doing well in that dept. There are tons of guys that have no stars and become talented players due to hard work and coaching. Coaches def shoulder the blame on this and if Hoke isnt willing to change them then another long season for fans and a short stay in AA for the Hoke family.

Except they do matter. Study after study have shown that over a period of time, teams with higher star rankings have higher winning percentages. The % of players making All-American teams and 1st and 2nd round draft prospects are disproportionately skewed toward players who were former 4 and 5 star players.  I`ll agree that stars aren't the end all be all, being a 5 star doesn't guarantee a player will be great, and being a 2 or 3 doesn't guarantee that a player will be average or bad. From an individual player to player standpoint a lot more factors come into play. If you take entire recruiting classes and stack them up, or take multiple years and stack them up, the teams with the higher star rating are almost always better.
 
"Only the good ones come to Michigan"
-Dennis Franklin
 
#16
jsj_297

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 1:33 PM (permalink)
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2-3* kids with big heart, and never say die attitude > 4-5* immature, weak minded better than thou attitude kids.

See a 5* may line up as wr vs a 2-3* cb.....as the game wears on and the stud wr has 5 catches by halftime, then suddenly breaks loose and gets behind the cb and drops an easy TD pass.....happens to anybody at some point......how does he respond? Does he melt and fold up shop? The 3* cb now has the advantage the rest of the game. Even though he has been clearly dominated early on, and especially being beat deep.

Stars don't measure those intangibles IMO. Having a Kovacs heart on a 4-5* talent would be ideal.
 
#17
MichFan4Life

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 1:55 PM (permalink)
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jsj_297


2-3* kids with big heart, and never say die attitude > 4-5* immature, weak minded better than thou attitude kids.

See a 5* may line up as wr vs a 2-3* cb.....as the game wears on and the stud wr has 5 catches by halftime, then suddenly breaks loose and gets behind the cb and drops an easy TD pass.....happens to anybody at some point......how does he respond? Does he melt and fold up shop? The 3* cb now has the advantage the rest of the game. Even though he has been clearly dominated early on, and especially being beat deep.

Stars don't measure those intangibles IMO. Having a Kovacs heart on a 4-5* talent would be ideal.

I gotta ask? Where does this idea come from?
 
That 4 & 5 star players are nothing but entitled, lazy, prima donna types with no heart while 2-3 players are made up of nothing but undercover Thor like figures. I`m suppose to buy that the players at Florida State, Auburn, Ohio State, Alabama, etc are nothing but lazy, heartless, immature kids?
 
C'Mon man!
 
"Only the good ones come to Michigan"
-Dennis Franklin
 
#18
ScottsdaleBlue

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 1:56 PM (permalink)
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M$U records since their last Rose Bowl win. They can't put back to back seasons together...

2009 6-7
2008 9-4
2007 7-6
2006 4-8
2005 5-6
2004 5-7
2003 8-5
2002 4-8
2001 7-5
2000 5-6
1999 10-2
1998 6-6
1997 7-5
1996 6-6
1995 6-5-1
1994 0-11
1993 6-6
1992 5-6
1991 3-8
1990 8-3-1
1989 8-4
1988 6-5-1

Maybe I should be more worried but until I see Sparty consistently compete I chalk this season up to once in a lifetime.

Go Blue!!

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.

 
#19
uneek1

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Re:For the record: MSU's defense by star ratings Thursday, January 02, 2014 4:24 PM (permalink)
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MichFan4Life


uneek1


Stars dont matter because its all opinionated. What seems to be the theme and I agree is development. UM is not doing well in that dept. There are tons of guys that have no stars and become talented players due to hard work and coaching. Coaches def shoulder the blame on this and if Hoke isnt willing to change them then another long season for fans and a short stay in AA for the Hoke family.

Except they do matter. Study after study have shown that over a period of time, teams with higher star rankings have higher winning percentages. The % of players making All-American teams and 1st and 2nd round draft prospects are disproportionately skewed toward players who were former 4 and 5 star players.  I`ll agree that stars aren't the end all be all, being a 5 star doesn't guarantee a player will be great, and being a 2 or 3 doesn't guarantee that a player will be average or bad. From an individual player to player standpoint a lot more factors come into play. If you take entire recruiting classes and stack them up, or take multiple years and stack them up, the teams with the higher star rating are almost always better.

 
Whoever put the study together that more stars equal better winnning percentages should be given the Captain obvious award.  Of course players who have higher stars tend to be better players, to make better teams and therfore better winning percentages DUH!!!
 
I think the focus should be less on the stars and more on the development. To me what would be a more telling stat is how many players in a program play professionally someowhere (NFL, CFL, or Arena) That would speak volumes to the coaching development

 
#20
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