Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (Wolverine4Life)

Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:21:47 GMT

SCM mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating since everyone has completely glossed it over. When Washington scored the first thing I said was "They have to go for two now." They were big underdogs at home and had all the momentum and the crowd behind them. The penalty completely took that away. And I love how people act like he planned on throwing the ball up. The kid just reacted. It's not like it was planned or anything.

My all-time favorite Wolverine, and one of the best Michigan Men we have had IMO, Jason Avant was humble and a team player. Go back and watch a replay of his TD catch @ NW (I think it was in 2002). He did a little TD dance. I can't remember a single person saying it was bad, although I don't go that far back here so I can't speak for this site. But he was a freshman playing in front of his hometown team and he showed emotion. He would be flagged for it now. Taunting and preplanned celebrations are ridiculous and should be flagged, but when a guy scores and spikes the ball or anything like that just let it go.

FWIW, my friend and I took turns throwing a football about ten feet in the air ten times and the average hangtime was right around two seconds. So I am now even less impressed with the argument that he threw it too high.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (mgobluefan)

Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:15:43 GMT

So, as an official how do you decide which rules to enforce and which rules are stupid and let slide?

If they ignore this rule, then why not ignore the occasional hold that didn't really have any effect on the play. Or they could start ignoring most of the blocks in the back on punt returns that aren't really close to the ball carrier. Where do you draw the line?

They don't write the rules, they just enforce them.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (UM-Carolina)

Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:17:19 GMT

It was a 37 yard extra point.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (aMAIZEing)

Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:11:54 GMT

My dad always told me to act like you have been there before. That being said, I think it's good for players to show emotion (especially when it helps you understand their love for their team/program/etc). Unfortunately, the NCAA would rather not leave these types of rules open for interpretation (or judgement).

With this play, I can see why people are upset, BUT... you never know if the kicker would have shanked the FG up close or if it had still been blocked.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (MJackson)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:38:49 GMT

right, let's have players take classes on how they should react when they score TDs in clutch situations, rather than let them play and show emotion

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (UM-Carolina)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:51:17 GMT

Horrible call! Very few players have ever handle themselves like Barry Sanders. I love that he handed the ball to the officials in the NFL, but he scored about 8,500 TD's, so it made no sense for him to spike it. It would have probably led to tendonitis. There was no taunting in what Locker did. Although, maybe by tossing the ball over his shoulder it could have led to an injury. You have to protect the athletes, eh?

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (BigHouseFootball)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:35:57 GMT

Good thing we were winning 23-3 at that point. ;-)

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (The_Michigan_Man)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 08:36:36 GMT

Like I said before, THIS would have been a penalty...15 YARDS!!

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (terryfoster)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 07:38:18 GMT

HA :)

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (scmgoblue)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 06:49:21 GMT

Yeah it's a good thing we always just hand the ball off to the ref...

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (terryfoster)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 06:39:49 GMT

The_Michigan_Man
$0$0Man, all you guys SERIOUSLY are taking the true Passion from this game...$0

$0$0$0Nope. I look at our team and see all sorts of passion, but somehow they manage to do it within the rules.$0

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (terryfoster)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 06:38:17 GMT

MJackson
$0$0can't believe all these people. . . did you even know the scenario? UW, trailing by 7 with less than a minute to play, and with under 10 seconds to play, Locker makes a miraculous run to get a TD at home. the crowd goes wild, and a young Husky team is one point away from OT. $0$0
terryfoster
$0$0It was a dumb move by the Washington player who only hadto dump the ball when he crossed the endzone line.$0
$0$0You want him to just hand the ball to the ref?$0

$0$0$0Yep, our players don't seem to have this problem and keep themselves out of trouble, so I suppose I expect the same out of other teams and players.$0

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (The_Michigan_Man)

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:21:12 GMT

Man, all you guys SERIOUSLY are taking the true Passion from this game...I agree with you Jackson, 110%!!!

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (BigHouseFootball)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:59:29 GMT

MJackson

You want him to just hand the ball to the ref? this is Football, not water polo.

You're right it is football, and that junk is not allowed, hence the penalty.

I seem to remember the best RB of all time-Barry Sanders-simply handing the ball to the referee after every single TD he scored, and he scored some pretty big TDs in his time both college and pro.

Hand the ball to the ref, or drop it, go celebrate with your teammates.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (MJackson)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:01:13 GMT

can't believe all these people. . . did you even know the scenario? UW, trailing by 7 with less than a minute to play, and with under 10 seconds to play, Locker makes a miraculous run to get a TD at home. the crowd goes wild, and a young Husky team is one point away from OT.

terryfoster

It was a dumb move by the Washington player who only hadto dump the ball when he crossed the endzone line.

You want him to just hand the ball to the ref? this is Football, not water polo. it was the game tying TD with 2 seconds left, after an AMAZING run by a QB. it's called emotion, passion, excitement, desire. BTW, after watching the replay, I don't think he intentionally threw it that high. besides, it's easy for you to say, "he should have done this or that". it was a great game, and for the game to have ended like that, is ridiculous.

Locker, and the other Huskies, didn't even taunt or show up the BYU guys either. they were just ecstatic about the TD and wanted to celebrate.

MaizeRageWolverine

They were still left with a VERYmakeable extra point. I understand he was overcome by emotion andexcitement as most of us would be, but a rule is a rule.

the refs destroyed the SPIRIT of the rule. that's what I'm especially mad about. it was at best, a borderline call, and considering the circumstances, it wasn't needed

Philc

Hecould have dropped the ball, flipped it the ref, but instead threwthing and it had over 2 seconds of hang time. The rule is clear.

Tough break, hit the extra point and go to over time.

PersonallyI detest the silly touch down antics. I am entertained by athletesperforming as a team not by some idiot prancing in the endzone afterthe play is over.

right, I'm sure Locker planned to have "2 seconds of hangtime". couldn't have been that he was excited that he just scored the game tying TD. I don't even think he intentionally wanted to throw it up. the ball just kinda came out. let's all have stopwatches from now on to count the hang time of these situations.

hit the XP? it was obvious that the team, and the entire stadium lost momentum after the penalty. not to mention that the kicker had to kick it lower than he liked.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (The_Michigan_Man)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:50:47 GMT

And let me clarify, that by that rule, I mean that other instances, such as taunting, or anything that can be perceived as dangerous to other players, or disrespectful to the other team or fans, should still be in there...I just dont see how throwing a ball into the air (2.36 sec. air time to be exact...not that high) constitutes as disrespectful or as taunting...But I understand what it says in the rule book..

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (The_Michigan_Man)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:44:13 GMT

terryfoster

The_Michigan_Man

I dont know about you guys, but to me everything as far as celebrating should be fine and not penalized. Everything EXCEPT taunting or being dangerous. I mean, TO for example, though I do not like the man, he IS a paid entertainer, and to me it makes me laugh. I see something like that, and I am entertained. I like it. You may not. You may think its silly. You may think its unsportsman-like. I happen to find it funny. The way this new rule is, I hate it, and takes "part of" (I said part of, not all , not half, PART OF) the fun of watching your team or teamates make a great play. This is ridiculous and I am sure will be changed for next year.

"Henne with two seconds left. Henne throws to Manningham TOUCHDOWN!! MICHIGAN WINS!!"

Senerio One: The one we all saw, a jubilant Michigan team, running up and jumping in the air, fist pumping, chest bumping....oh, but there is a flag on the play for too much celebration.

Senerio Two: Mario Walks up, hands the ball to the ref, and continues to walk to the locker room with the rest of his team, because thats the rules: No jublilation. No celebrating. Very boring. Not entertaining.

Wow, i'm not sure how more wrong on the subject you could be. The celebration was fine, the problem was throwing the ball and this isn't a new rule. Throwing the ball high into the air is right inline with spiking the ball. I don't think ESPN did the refs any favors by omitting the rest of the rule (from the 2005 rulebook):

After a score or any other play, the player in possession immediately must return the ball to an official or leave it near the dead-ball spot. This prohibits:
(a) Kicking, throwing, spinning or carrying (including off of the field) the ball any distance that requires an official to retrieve it.
(b) Spiking the ball to the ground [Exception:A forward pass to conserve time (Rule 7-3-2-d)].
(c) Throwing the ball high into the air.
(d) Any other unsportsmanlike act or actions that delay the game.

Now, onto your 2005 PSU game example. Mario did run with the ball but did dump it "near the dead ball spot" and then celebrated with the team. On top of that the game was over and the point after was unnecessary, unlike in the BYU/Wash game.

So, the only thing wrong at the BYU/Wash game was that the QB threw the ball "high into the air". This wasn't a hard "judgement" to make since it went pretty far into the air. Again, if he had spiked the ball (same rule but item B) I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

EDIT: Wow, this site really doesn't like Chrome.

I still dont find a problem with throwing the ball in the air...I know its THE RULE...I understand that...I just dont understand WHY its a rule...I thought it was fine...as an opponent I wouldnt find that as "un sportsmanlike conduct" I just wouldnt...I sometimes really wonder who they write these rules for. If you saw this on a highlight reel, and there was no call, would you say "Oh what the hell, that should have been a 15 yarder right there!" I seriously doubt anyone on here would. And if you did, well maybe you should try enjoying the game a little.

Like I said, I understand its THE RULE...I just dont understand WHY it is one..

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (terryfoster)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:24:03 GMT

The_Michigan_Man

I dont know about you guys, but to me everything as far as celebrating should be fine and not penalized. Everything EXCEPT taunting or being dangerous. I mean, TO for example, though I do not like the man, he IS a paid entertainer, and to me it makes me laugh. I see something like that, and I am entertained. I like it. You may not. You may think its silly. You may think its unsportsman-like. I happen to find it funny. The way this new rule is, I hate it, and takes "part of" (I said part of, not all , not half, PART OF) the fun of watching your team or teamates make a great play. This is ridiculous and I am sure will be changed for next year.

"Henne with two seconds left. Henne throws to Manningham TOUCHDOWN!! MICHIGAN WINS!!"

Senerio One: The one we all saw, a jubilant Michigan team, running up and jumping in the air, fist pumping, chest bumping....oh, but there is a flag on the play for too much celebration.

Senerio Two: Mario Walks up, hands the ball to the ref, and continues to walk to the locker room with the rest of his team, because thats the rules: No jublilation. No celebrating. Very boring. Not entertaining.

Wow, i'm not sure how more wrong on the subject you could be. The celebration was fine, the problem was throwing the ball and this isn't a new rule. Throwing the ball high into the air is right inline with spiking the ball. I don't think ESPN did the refs any favors by omitting the rest of the rule (from the 2005 rulebook):

After a score or any other play, the player in possession immediately must return the ball to an official or leave it near the dead-ball spot. This prohibits:
(a) Kicking, throwing, spinning or carrying (including off of the field) the ball any distance that requires an official to retrieve it.
(b) Spiking the ball to the ground [Exception:A forward pass to conserve time (Rule 7-3-2-d)].
(c) Throwing the ball high into the air.
(d) Any other unsportsmanlike act or actions that delay the game.

Now, onto your 2005 PSU game example. Mario did run with the ball but did dump it "near the dead ball spot" and then celebrated with the team. On top of that the game was over and the point after was unnecessary, unlike in the BYU/Wash game.

So, the only thing wrong at the BYU/Wash game was that the QB threw the ball "high into the air". This wasn't a hard "judgement" to make since it went pretty far into the air. Again, if he had spiked the ball (same rule but item B) I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

EDIT: Wow, this site really doesn't like Chrome.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (southernBLUE)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:15:53 GMT

Philc

The celebration wasn't penalized per se. He could have dropped the ball, flipped it the ref, but instead threw thing and it had over 2 seconds of hang time. The rule is clear.

Tough break, hit the extra point and go to over time.

Personally I detest the silly touch down antics. I am entertained by athletes performing as a team not by some idiot prancing in the endzone after the play is over.

i agree 100%, but i hate when these calls occur and determine the game. sure they still could've hit the extra point, but i think the refs should have used better judgement. i know its against the rules but its not like the kid punted the ball into the stands or was thrusting his crotch in the face of an opponent. the kid threw the ball in the air.

Re:Celebration penalty costs Washington against BYU (umgoblue14)

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:18:13 GMT

"The rule is clear"

But it is still in the judgement of the official! The one ref signalling the TD and walking toward the players did not seen to have a problem with it.